Thread:Orecreeper/@comment-27398195-20180723195224/@comment-34403911-20180811163338

Jallybwan wrote: Akang22 wrote:

And does this apply to everything? Is watching YT fun? Do you put effort into it? When did I say it applied to everything? Of course it doesn't. But it applies to games, and (in case you didn't notice), ToS is a game.

Then why does it apply to games but not other things?

Also, we didn't say anything of making it a free win. In fact, the whole point of the argument is to banish the idea of the free win. Sure, you can have fun by going the extra light year, but did you know, you can actually do much more. I was talking to Orecreeper.

'''So? Can you rebut this point?'''

And once again, fun is subjective so you can't say games aren't fun that you don't put effort in. Touché. But my other point still stands - if a game's not fun for you without effort, then you should put effort in to make it fun, no? Depends on the person.

'''It's not only the point that it's not fun, it's not challenging at all. We need an 'objective' that actually challenges the player. Say you were 'town' in VIP mode. Do you pretend to be a coven if it was too easy for you to win (which it is in VIP)? That would be considered 'gamethrowing'.'''

So you're saying if there is this one person who is opposed to the recent arso buff, it shouldn't have happened? When did I say that? Arsonist was underpowered before the buff, and tbh, it still is. Introducing balance isn't a problem. Just look at Dead by Daylight - so many survivor mains are whining about all the nerfs they're getting, because survivors were definitely too powerful before the Exhaustion nerf. Now the game is more balanced, and people are whining. You can never make everyone happy.

'''Exactly, but what you want to do is to make the majority of people happy. And I'm pretty sure the majority of TOS players would like a change to make survivor harder or at least more fun. '''