Board Thread:Role Ideas (Mafia)/@comment-36558623-20181016230526/@comment-36539941-20181110175958

Faraday242 wrote: Name: Tactician

Alignment: Mafia (Deception)

Attack: None

Defense: None

Unique Role: Yes

Priority: 4

Abilities: Plan every move the Town will take and counter it

Attributes: Mafia targets are immune from the town's forces at night.

Seems nice

Mechanics: (How It Works)

- Target a member of the mafia

- They gain detection immunity, their visit is not seen by a Spy or Lookout

- Investigators will get a result that the Tactician chooses at the beginning of the night from the role list (i.e if he selects a role, that role's investigation result will appear)

'''So if suspicion is pushed onto, say, a Godfather claiming Doctor, this one role will not only "confirm" Godfather as Doctor, but also possibly cause mislynches on accusers, who were legit TI and stuff? A bit OP, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion. '''

- If the Godfather and Mafioso die, the Tactician takes over as Mafia Killing. The Tactician does not gain defense, but does gain permanent detection immunity is unseen by visit Tactician may only kill after being converted, they are no longer able to protect another mafia from the Town.

'''So you're saying that after Godfather and Mafioso die, the Tactician turns into a Mafioso with detection immunity and is completely unseen by visits? And other Mafia members simply turn into Mafioso. Please don't make this role THAT hard to counter'''

- Targets are also control/roleblock immune.

'''Wait, so not only are they immune to TI, but the target can't be roleblocked or controlled either? Tbh, although it seems good, it's actually pretty bad. Say that your GF claimed Doctor, you masked your GF as Doctor with your ability, and any TI along with Escort came along. The TI says that your GF is in fact, a Doctor, but when Escort sees that they didn't get roleblocked, they know that it wasn't a Doctor, but a Mafia.'''

- The Spy sees the Tactitian visit other mafia members.

'''Alright. That's fair.'''

- The Tactician can only use their ability 5 times

- The Tactician may select themselves an infinite amount of times, within their five uses.

'''I agree with limiting the uses, however, I would suggest less uses (maybe 3). Not only is 3 THE number for limited uses, but their ability is a bit OP, seeing as it straight up counters all the TI, Roleblockers and Controllers, and can easily confirm one of your fellow comrades as a Town. As for selecting themselves, sure, why not?'''

-Investigative Results-

Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia!

Investigator: Your target is a Spy, Blackmailer, or Jailor

Consigliere/Witch: Your target has planned for any and all interferences with their plans, they must be a Tactician.

Goal: Kill all who do not submit to the Mafia.

Wins With: Mafia, NE, NB

Must Kill: All else

Anything Else:

Sheriff - Is nerfed enough, but its primary goal is to find mafia, so I didn't counter it too much

'''True true, but still, nerfing Sheriff in anyway is a bad thing. It could turn a good night (for the Sheriff) where they find Mafioso or something and confirm themselves into a bad night where they list a Mafia member as NS'''

Investigator - Finally, mafia may claim outside of its investigation result without being immediately outed. Remember that Investigator finds Town just as much as it finds Mafia, it doesn't hurt them too much.

'''Although Investigator does make Mafia claim within their result, I have played multiple games where Godfather claimed Exe, Mafioso claimed Spy, etc. Mafia doesn't inherently have to claim within their result, it's just that most Mafia players do anyways, out of fear from the Investigator. '''

Lookout - A way to finally counter this busted role.

'''First off, Lo isn't busted. The Lo claim is inherently suspicious (actually, all TI claims are, except for Spy for some reason, as far as my knowledge of the game goes). LO is used pretty much exclusively as TP or occasionally finding BM'r or Witch or something. Had you made it not able to see the Mafia member that did the wrongdoing, although you'd know there's a Tactician in the game, that gives you no info on who dunnit, plus your claim is weaker. And if 2 people visited, Mafia and someone else, then you'd assume that there was no Tactician, and that that someone else had to have been Mafia. See the problem?'''

Spy - Not only is the "Cognito" Mafia member immune from spies all-seeing eyes (eliminating the n1 escort confirmity). But also, you aren't confirmed 'non-mafia' if you are visited, because the mafia can be visited by tactician. Spy needed a nerf, and this is it. Seeing Mafia visits is still very powerful.

'''​​​​​​​Yes, Spy is well-known for it's ability to see Mafia visits. And that's essentially all spy does, as Bugging is only ever used when you want to confirm yourself. But making Spy not able to see one Mafia visit is detrimental to a Spy's info gathering and eliminating of claims. Normally, they can point out Consigs and Consorts and stuff pretty easily, but not seeing just one or 2 visits from that role can just as much prove them as Town, without them actually doing any claiming or providing info themselves.''' Overall, while I do like the idea of nerfing TI (because, face it, town only ever wins if TI actually gives info), this role nerfs it a bit too hard. Bring down some of the nerfs, and I'm cool with it.