Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20171002223259/@comment-31680260-20171007214149

Unrealname123 wrote: Lazuli-Heart wrote: Team Coven!Well oh boy time for my two bobs-worth.

The Mafia and the Coven are very similar and in their respective modes the "Main Enemy". But the Coven has a truckload more power and versitility than the mafia could ever have. It's also more thematically correct, since it's the Town of Salem, the place people did the Witch trials, not the place people were doing organised crime and being hung for a decent reason in the real world. Now let's take a look at the Coven's roles.

'''Let's not forget that we have mafia first. And also not forget this is based on "Werewolf" (Maybe so, but Mafia or Werewolf are fiction, nothing more than games. The Salem Witch trials were real, and the paranoia accurately reflects how frequently the lynching in-game goes wrong. I think it's safe to say that the Coven have the upper hand in terms of lore.)'''

Coven Leader, our regular witch getting a team of her own. Her ability can replace a Consort and a Consigilire, and with the necronomicon she can replace a Mafioso, finding out roles, disrupting night abilities and killing. It gets jobs it normally takes 3 members of the mafia to do.

She is mow down to a single target ( instead of two if consort and consig ), and normally, consort can claim escort, CL don't. (She trades that for being one role, which leaves room for others that can also sub in for a lot of the Mafia roles. The PM's potions do have a cooldown, which is a downside, but she trades THAT in for being a 3 for 1 deal (Consig, Doctor, SK).

Potion Master, our alchemist. The versitility of this role replaces a Doctor, Mafioso and a Consigilire. They can find out roles, kill and heal for the Coven, which is more than I can say any 11 mafia member can do themselves, this is basically a swiss-army knife of the Coven.

'''(Necronomicon gives no cooldown, but, without it, she is basically out of gas unless she able to used her Heal like a god. Again, way nerfed then consigs's efficent. (Explained this already. The cooldowns are timed to make sure she can do something each night that's useful. There's no real reason NOT to heal someone at random. It's like randomly healing as a Doctor and hoping you save someone, except for the PM it's on a much smaller scale and thus she's more likely to save a fellow Coven. You wouldn't say that Doc's a bad role, would you?)'''

Poisioner, our delayed killer. A neat killer who covers her tracks. In exchange for extra stealth her victims get an opportunity to cry for help. Combine this with a Necromancer and a dead Blackmailer however, and they don't get a chance. Often times in All Any or VIP there is no Doctor to save them anyway. Add the Necronomicon and she can't be stopped.

'''Lookout can still spots you on the day you poison, and then, if they see the players laters dies, they would call you out, so it's not an advantage. We are plus, taking Ranked and Ranked Practice as the matters much. (Perhaps the Lookout might spot you when you poison, but she's still got a better chance of going unnoticed than a Mafioso or a Godfather, since those two directly visit their victims THE NIGHT THEY DIE.)'''

Hex-Master, the flush card. She's able to take out the rest of her opponents in one fatal swoop. Adding the necronomicon, and even a Veteran can't take her out, dealing Basic Astral attacks to those she curses. She is also able to destroy a Framer at the Framing job, and gets a Framer's investigative results.

'''Adding Necronomicon, you said ?? Heh, what's before that ? A slower process of dousing. Have I say this have a relatively low chance of Hexing the entire town before get spotted by sheriffs and psychic. The framing ability is still, quite said a buff, but normally, investigators don't came out by that. (How's it slower? If anything, it's faster, since she only needs to hex people that aren't Coven and people that the Coven don't intend to kill soon. Considering how fast the Coven kills, she needs to hex MUCH less people than the Arso needs to douse. And the framing ability is indeed a buff - even if it doesn't trick the TI's, it still means that they can't glean any useful information from them other than the fact that there's a Hex Master. Even still, some TI's WILL be fooled by it, and will likely end up getting the hexed person (and themselves) lynched.)'''

Necromancer, our "Evil Retributionist". Bringing back corpses to furfill any purpous. Did I say Potion Master was a swiss-army knife? Well the Necromancer can fill even MORE roles. She can even bring a Pestilence back for an encore. A well placed corpse or two and this killer can take out chunks of the Mafia. Add the Necronomicon and she can add the corpses to use by herself, not relying on any other killers. She forces the Mafia to supply her with power.

'''Yea, extra killing power to what ? Kill the Godfather while Necro Medusa can do it ? Kill Neutral Killers/Exes. It's not likely we will have a Alive Pestilence, since PB is hard to play as in someway, and probably Day 6 when Pest is spawn. Her courpse will rot without Necronomicon, she is a nerfed witch, she can only forces Vig to kill one person instead of twice ( as for the vig himself ), and the serial killer won't be a good tool for her. Necro is a strong card, but her claims are weak af. (Vigilante can only shoot one townie anyway, discarding himself - do you really expect the dead body to shoot itself a second time? And she's got extra killing power to kill townies, of course - what the hell did you expect? She's a Coven member, her goal is to kill anyone who's not Coven, or at the very least not opposed to them taking over. It's her damn JOB to kill stuff, while providing other roles' benefits on the side.)'''

Medusa, our snake haired killer. The Veteran and Janitor's lovechild. She'll destroy anyone who dares enter her home, will and all. With the Necronomicon she becomes unstoppable, visiting and removing all barriers to her slaughter.

'''oh nu CL just controled a jester in me, now I just lost a valueble gaze ! Yea. And the Stoned visiting at late game is seemingly only kind of weak, since a present lookout/tracker/psychic/medium can fck you. Heck, not mentioning the risk of killing Potion Masters. Also, weak claim. (Most people who visit the Medusa are forced to do so by the Coven Leader, so the victim doesn't know who they visited. A Tracker can phuck over any evil role. So can the Psychic. And the Medium would have to expose themselves to out the Medusa, so they'll die taking her out. And even THEN, that's assuming the Town believes her. I've seen legit Mediums get lynched just because Medium is a scummy claim. Furthermore, your "controlled a jester to me, lost a valuable gaze" statement could be said for a Forger who forged someone that didn't even write a will to begin with.)'''

In the mafia, sometimes you feel like a tack-on, an added on role, an extra vote. Don't tell me you feel instrumental playing Disguiser, Hypnotist, Ambusher or Framer. The Coven doesn't have this problem, as they are all unique killing machines. I noticed some saying the Coven doesn't have voting power, but this is a lie as in every game they can have just as many members as the mafia.

'''Instrumental ? Mafia relies on each others, and perfome way better combos then anyone, like the Forger Consig, Consort Hypno... so on. Coven on the other hands, only has a Medusa to cover their track, which is never gonna be enough, (CL + Medusa, actually.) and without Hex Master, Investigator is a Death Sentence to them. (Invest is just as much a "death sentence" to the Coven as it is to the Mafia. By that logic, Framer is the most valuable role in the Mafia - which it clearly isn't.) Their claiming positions are not proven good, I mean, Medusa and CL, two forced role. For Medusa, you can only claim Psychic or Survivor since VH not an option. Claiming Psychic is another Death Sentence because you are not proven and townies will likely to lynch you. (Not if you play your cards right - you can claim any role within reason if you're good at bluffing.) Claiming survivor ? Well. SURVIVOR CURSE. KILL DA SURV 2k17. (Not all towns kill survivors. Hell, check the poll on Haw's page - most people would SPARE a neutral. Haw's a skilled player, yes?) CL claims availible are Lookout and Amne. While Amne is crumbles like heck, (Don't phucking claim it then! That's like Blackmailer claiming Jailor...) and no crazy escorts will rb them if they promise to be town, (You haven't met the same Escorts I have) and Coven Leader will not able to help since he has to control/kill someone else for infomations purpose, you screwed. (Once again, if you don't think you can claim something, don't. This is more of a skill-based thing than a role-based one.) Lookout is kind of a solid claim, but also the worse claim if you are trying to claim investigatives. (Not. If. You. Bluff. Right. Lookout is indeed a solid claim, made doubly effective if you bus another Coven role (with their permission of course).) Some tries to claim Investigator, but will likely be lynch  (since CL ability ), sheriff is well, plausible until an invest/sheriff tarnation you. (Once again again, this is a skill-based argument. CL has the ability to claim things outside its invest result, but you need to be careful. It's like a GF claiming BG, since whoever the GF visits SHOULD be protected - but instead, they die. Or they get caught not visiting because of a Mafioso... but what kind of BG would stay at home instead of trying to catch a killer?) '''

The Coven are better conditioned for worse circumstances, all powehouses in their own right, more thematically correct and just more fitting as the main enemy in Town of Salem. They may be locked behind a paywall, but this is because they're a over all stronger, better team. I'm by no means saying I hate the mafia, but the Coven is just better at surviving. They replace all of the truely important members of the Mafia. Janitor, Mafioso/Godfather, Consigirlire, Consort. The Coven is the true enemy of Town of Salem.

'''From my view, no, because they can't hide so well in front of the paranoid town. (That paranoid Town's gonna be a dead Town in a couple of nights, and their paranoia only works against them. I wonder how many townies get lynched just because of paranoia?) '''