Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-36558623-20191205010244/@comment-205.237.153.138-20191216152906

Faraday242 wrote: 2600:1700:6C72:6070:C502:E173:9CFA:1241 wrote: Quaccanthrope wrote: Pirate is pure luck. Please back your statement up more gladly, you guys seem to be thinking that for whatever reason rock paper scissors is also intirely luck based(it isn't) but i'm here to defend the pirate '''rock paper scissors would be like the first day of psych class. like, it's something like a 51% chance that men do rock and the same for woman and paper. that's not strategy, if you flip a coin 100 times you won't get 50/50.''' exept theres also a chance that you draw and then what happens? do you A. choose a random thing again like an idiotB. ingage in entense mindgames trying to predict what your oponent will think you are thinking to outplay them or C. stick to your guns and win most of the time, answer C. turns out that being random is a pretty horible idea

1. theres a pirate and pirate-ee meta: rightnow it seems most pirates use rapier while most pirate-ees use backpedal implying that people are not just picking at random but picking based off of what they and other people have chosen

i would have no way of confirming or denying this.

I will talk about these things later.

2. its less random than many other roles: exe - random target, ga - random target, sheriff -  choose a random taret and they might or might not be sus. see my point?

'''ish. you sited two examples who's challenge is random, exe and ga. i disagree because these roles still require strategy. even if you got something pathetically easy to accuse, you still need to come off as not sus. besides, your other example, sheriff, is like the anthises to luck. you need to weed out evils every night, and sure, occasionally you will get a sus n1, but that's like 1/6 of the time, so it's not completely based off of luck.'''

but we don't call these random because they have underlying bits of strategy, such as how you acuse your target as exe,

so we agree, cool.

or going after more quite or more sus members of the town. pirate picks a random person and tries to predict what the other person will do

predict'. it's rock paper scissors. there isn't real strategy in rock paper scissors.'''

1. there is inherent strategy in rock paper scissors and 2. this isn't rock paper scissors, the closer thing to say would be reverse rock paper scissors

3. the pirates have strategies: 1 - pirate someone you've pirated before and their likely to either rechoose what they chose before or choose what neither of you did,

'''how do you know this. even if this was true, that takes two nights. that's a large if, too. it doesn't even matter if that's true or not, as soon as people realize this it'll just go back to rock paper scissors. imagine if eveyone found out that when you played two out of three, the person would always choose the thing they won with/lost to the first time they played. everyone would just stop doing that. '''

because i've played a lot of pirate which you have not at all, and if everyone would stop doing that then a new strategy would form, also there is something similair in rock paper scissors, when you choose the same thing you did before you tend to win more.

2 - use the option that beats the current pirate-ee meta 3 - choose people you think are evil to remove the chances that town lnch you, prevent that person from killing you, and make the game last longer if you fail giving you more chances to succeed 4 - side with town to make sure you arn't lynched. these are ones off the top of my head and already is more strategic than surv wich is, side with majority or be aggresive and lynch people who want to kill you

1.) surv and pirate aren't in ranked, so judging their strategies isn't valid.

1. thats a dumb assesment, you don't need to be in ranked to use strategy.

2.) a surv has vests, that he must perserve every day, along with balancing a fake claim or maintaining town trust, like a shady politician. the latter may be similair to pirate, but pirate doesn't have the luxury of self-protection. he has a dice roll.

2. yes he does, its called pirating the evils. you see pirating someone roleblocks them​​​​​​​ and if they're roleblocked they can't kill you, unless they are sk or ww, but if you win against sk then you won't die.

4. the pirate-ees have strategies: 1 - ask a friend if your bar was already on the chat box then you can ask whatever friends who can to help decide what to do 2 - choose the option that is anti pirate meta and anti pirate-ee meta

'''like.... do you realize your describing rock paper scissors.'''

'''for the pirate - choose rock, many people have been using scissors lately. or do scissors anticipating them using paper because rock is common.'''

'''for the victim - choose paper, pirates often choose rock nowadays and it's a good counter. do rock, you'll probably tie worst cascenario, but best cascenario you'll predict the counter to your counter, scissors.'''

1. anti-rock paper scissors, 2. so your saying that if it's used like this people aren't being random and i'm RIGHT? maybe make an argument not i disagree because rock paper scissors and nothing else

3 - if you are pirated again choose what they chose 4 -

how would you know what they choose.

"you sidestepped the pirate's rapier. you won the duel"

tell someone to protect you if your afraid of the pirate,

every attacking role

true. but still strategy.

and more like seriously theres quite a few strategies for both

5. the human brain isn't random, when doing something someone will tend to go back to what they know and do something in a formulaic way so you should always expect there to be a meta becaue when someone is pirated they start forming conclusions on what pirates do and refine themselves and when pirates lose they do the same.

this is just bullshit

you're applying psychology to a 30 second game where two people roll dice and if one person ties or is higher they win, there isn't underlying psychology to each round, and even if there was, it wouldn't be universally useful because everyone has a different brain.

psychology: the study of the brain and its' behaviors. and hey, wouldn't you know it if you know how someones brain works and their behavior you'd know what people are more likely to choose. strange.

I don't understand people who constantly complain about how the pirate is luck or rng based(it can't be this is intirely your stupid descisions there is no number saying ring ring ring, this guy gets fucked). do to the points that i pointed out and the fact that let's be honest most roles have SOME luck based aspect then i think pirate ISN'T MOSTLY luck based.

'''i don't like to complain, because it solves nothing and spreads negativity. obviously that philosophy contrasts heavily with what i've bashed rn. but i'd just like to say, even though I don't play coven, i think it's just accepted that pirate is a luck based role.'''

this is where i just threw out all of your arguments, you have never, or barely ever played pirate. you know next to nothing and yet act as a master, ever heard of the dunning kruger effect? where someone with little experiance with something overestimates their skills or knowledge, this is that. i've won 25+ games as pirate i've gotten all but the lose 10 duels achievements because i know pirate i know the nuances the intricasies, i know how people are i know what they tend to do, yes when the meta changes i must adapt and i do, but when the coven beta came out i was somehow winning 5+ duels as pirate in games there were several with 10+ because i knew the pirate meta at the time, no one would ever backpeddal evils would always sidestep and town would use chainmail and neutrals would pick between those 2, i won entire games of all any for town i once won a game for a town of 3! those 3 being doctor veteran and lookout and yet i won the game for them, because i knew the strategies and could outwit my oponents. but those were my glory days, now the meta is constantly changing and i must get to know it fast or lose as pirates

'''every role has luck. the faction and role you get is luck. '''

​​​​​​​whatever though, you do you.

​​​​​​​and remember kids don't argue over something you don't know.