Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-36558623-20191205010244/@comment-44618733-20191217042210

Faraday242 wrote: exept theres also a chance that you draw and then what happens? do you A. choose a random thing again like an idiotB. ingage in entense mindgames trying to predict what your oponent will think you are thinking to outplay them or C. stick to your guns and win most of the time, answer C. turns out that being random is a pretty horible idea '''ok but someone could just have the same logic as you and it would practically be random again. whatever you jusitfy your 'strategy' with, it just ends up being the same mindset everyone else can have.'''

1. there is inherent strategy in rock paper scissors and 2. this isn't rock paper scissors, the closer thing to say would be reverse rock paper scissors

because i've played a lot of pirate which you have not at all, and if everyone would stop doing that then a new strategy would form, also there is something similair in rock paper scissors, when you choose the same thing you did before you tend to win more.

'''just because you play a lot of pirate doesn't mean what happens to you specifically is true. regardless, even if you did start saying something, if everyone notices what you noticed then nothing will change.'''

1. thats a dumb assesment, you don't need to be in ranked to use strategy.

'''i meant a ranked-strategy, a.k.a, assuming you can use the same strategy every time. every all-any game fluctuates your strategy thoroughly, depending on how much mafia/town there are or what roles are in each allignment. this isn't all any, you don't have that dependability.'''

2.) a surv has vests, that he must perserve every day, along with balancing a fake claim or maintaining town trust, like a shady politician. the latter may be similair to pirate, but pirate doesn't have the luxury of self-protection. he has a dice roll.

2. yes he does, its called pirating the evils. you see pirating someone roleblocks them and if they're roleblocked they can't kill you, unless they are sk or ww, but if you win against sk then you won't die.

'''alright, he has protection. that wasn't really my arguement, but i guess we have clarified that pirate can live up against survivor.'''

1. anti-rock paper scissors, 2. so your saying that if it's used like this people aren't being random and i'm RIGHT? maybe make an argument not i disagree because rock paper scissors and nothing else

this is just extremely hypocritical.

1.) i didn't address this, but "asking your friend at the bar" seems sus. are you asking a friend for advice? are you talking to a friend during the game? Who is playing the game? i just don't understand

2.) to the actual arguement- i was saying that rock paper scissors could be overthought in any way where every option is viable. it's like reverse reverse reverse reverse psychology. you could just keep going forever.

3.) and that arguement that i'm just saying the same thing over and over again is true, but only because you have two arguements. 

'''your first is "you've never played pirate so everything you say is invalid" which is the ultimate trump card cuz like, there's not much i can retort to that. you are correct, i have never played pirate. i don't think experience should be a factor in the arguement though, because, like every opinion and role, we can't base all of our information off our own experience. i believe that exe's should just claim their sheriff if they want to get an easy win, but clearly others have different beliefs about that, based off their experience. so why does it matter.'''

'''your second is "it's more then that, it's psychology" so everytime I say "it's rock paper scissors" it's a counter to this arguement. i literally just proved how you could reverse reverse reverse reverse reverse revserse your psychology into all the outcomes, and I can do it again. really it's just random because anyone could fall down this absurd rabbit hole where they justify every action because it's basically random.'''

well i know that men are more likely to do rock, so i'm going to go with paper.

although, scissors is very common, so i'll try to do rock countering them and tying with their rock if i am wrong.

'''although, they could totally counter me by doing paper, tying my original choice and beating my new choice! i'll go with scissors.'''

'''alas, i have found the soloution. but wait, what if they haven't overthought this at all and will just go with rock, just like i said.'''

but what if they have...

'''i said if like fifteen times in that little segmeant, becuase when you keep throwing "ifs" in anything is likely. same logic if you saw there first move.'''

'''last time they did paper. so they'll probably do the same thing this time, so i should choose scissors.'''

'''but what if they think that i'm going to do the same thing just like them, i should do rock! countering their counter.'''

'''aw, but what if they really do the same thing, then i should do scissors. '''

you see my point.

3 - if you are pirated again choose what they chose 4 -

how would you know what they choose.

"you sidestepped the pirate's rapier. you won the duel"

yeah this is completely my fault, i should know the mechanics of the role i'm bashing.

tell someone to protect you if your afraid of the pirate,

every attacking role

true. but still strategy.

in that case everything's a strategy

'''ohh shiit i think i just found the root of our disagrement. ok.'''

psychology: the study of the brain and its' behaviors. and hey, wouldn't you know it if you know how someones brain works and their behavior you'd know what people are more likely to choose. strange.

'''ok, yes, you are absolutely right that if we knew everything about probility and psychology we could predict like everything. but, we know nothing about our opponent. we dont know their psychology, and there's no way we could make any conclusives points in 30 seconds.'''

this is where i just threw out all of your arguments, you have never, or barely ever played pirate. you know next to nothing and yet act as a master, ever heard of the dunning kruger effect? where someone with little experiance with something overestimates their skills or knowledge, this is that. i've won 25+ games as pirate i've gotten all but the lose 10 duels achievements because i know pirate i know the nuances the intricasies, i know how people are i know what they tend to do, yes when the meta changes i must adapt and i do, but when the coven beta came out i was somehow winning 5+ duels as pirate in games there were several with 10+ because i knew the pirate meta at the time, no one would ever backpeddal evils would always sidestep and town would use chainmail and neutrals would pick between those 2, i won entire games of all any for town i once won a game for a town of 3! those 3 being doctor veteran and lookout and yet i won the game for them, because i knew the strategies and could outwit my oponents. but those were my glory days, now the meta is constantly changing and i must get to know it fast or lose as pirates

'''don't huff too many of your own farts, you have to realize that even if you're good at something you're not going to be a master. but luck isn't something you're good at it's- it's luck, simple as that. like, some people are going to win the lottery, that's the nature of it. you're just bragging excessively. like ok, i obviously don't understand the "intrecasies" of pirate, and if you're willing to have an arguement with me, don't just throw the "you've never played it so you auto-lose" card. like-yeah, of course you're gonna win the arguement if you just use that arguement every time i make a valid point. you're using exclusively your own experience, and nothing else. you can't make an accurate assesment of pirate based off of that.'''

'''every role has luck. the faction and role you get is luck. '''

​​​​​​​whatever though, you do you.

​​​​​​​and remember kids don't argue over something you don't know.

if you're gonna be a bragadocious a-

'''and remember kids, don't brag. if you're really exceptional, your achievments will speak for themselves. ​​​​''' ughhh. your points are repeating and retarded, oh yes it's basically rps and rps is just random, or some other bs, if I can get exeptional results consistantly on a role than you can't call it luck, i used to be able to get 10+ wins now i get 3 or 4 at best, to point out i had a hayday where i was consitantly good at it is to say no it's not random because i can get good at it, like you said you can't master luck but if you master something then according to that logic the simple fact i have at some point mastered it throws your intire last point into the trash bin, also we arn't arguing if this is rps you ignoramous were arguing if this is skillful. have you ever played smash bros? if you have then you snow that when character A meets character B then character A will try to ue a strateg againt their oponent based on how these 2 characters normally interact, and based off of these strategies they make PREDICTIONS, the pirate is the same you imply that the pirate is only 1 duel no, when multiple pirates pirate multiple people people tend to piick what they have noticed most OTHER pirates have been picking and the pirates do the oposite, in a vacume it may be random but guess what we don't live in a vacume where every role is random we live in a world where people LEARN and GROW, if Person A(pirate) pirates person's b - d and picks pistol but they all don't soon the pirate will learn to not pick that and pick something else, and then after that soon that the pirate-ee's realise that pirates arn't picking pistol or something else as much and start doing that more, and so on and so forth. is this random? no this is sentient people learning from what was once random to gain a STATISTICAL advantage.

also you still haven't played pirate or against it at all and you are assuming a bunch of stupid horseshit,

hey wanna know why i metion strategy a lot, it's because if you are planning and plotting you are decidedly not random, you have yet to prove to me that the pirate is actually random all your saying is it's like rps, and even if it is SO WHAT? rps is also not luck based, heres an example:

you and your friend john decide to play rps best of 5, so then at first you play rock and he also plays rock. you decide that he is likely to think that you would use the same thing and he goes for paper, you go for scissors and win, next you play rock and he picks paper he wins, next you both play scissors you think he'll be thinking you won't go for the same thing as last time because that would be stupid and thusly he goes for scissors and you go for rock, you win next you play rock and john plays paper john wins, this is the final round you must win it for the honour of being good at rps? anyways you play paper and he plays paper, you expect john to now think one step ahead of last time and that you will use the thing that would beat the original if he played it and so you play rock, john thought very similairly and also picks rock this cylce continues another time where you both pick rock again and then you think that he will be wanting to get the jump on you since you are likely going to choose something else, likely scissors but, he foresaw this and thought that you would think this and chose rock he wins

look at that long drawn out segement of writing to eplain precisely about 30 seconds in real world time.

you can master rps, and you can master pirate, and if you can master it there must be some underlying thing about them that makes them strategic, and it's this, one random move can begin the chain but from then on it will all be based on previous fails and wins leading to moves that are less random and more thought out and contemplated, but pirte is more strategic than rps, because the strategies aren't just after the random move you made before no, they're based off of what everyone else you pirated chose what you think this person is like and what a person like them would choose, what you yourself cose when you were pirated before and such, human learn from their mistakes and it's just foolish to believe that if a strategy COULD exist in something that humans would not do that to get the upper hand, but then it would be equally foolish to assume that others would not learn and choose what would beat theire choices

also one final note, you do realise that most fighting games have a rps mechanical core right? it tends to be something like this, attack beats grab, grab beats block, and block beats attack, yes most fighting games have more than just these basic mechanics but they all revolve around it.