Thread:Orecreeper/@comment-27398195-20180723195224/@comment-34403911-20180729041524

HAWAIIANpikachu wrote: Medium can give lots of info if the others didn't write wills. It also can be pretty easily confirmed if there is another med. Dont forget about medusa.

If a town member didn't write a will then they're a newer player, most players that have experience will generally write a will. So medium isn't that useful.

Well''' medium is sort of a meme so I don't really get what you gain from arguing that medium sucks... '''

I don't understand why the vet would claim vig then...

A veteran would claim to be a vigilante as a bait for evils or the dang witch

Well the vet could then whisper, no point in going into a 1v1 over that.

Wait wait wait wait a second here, so you're agreeing that we should work on survivor?

I'm saying if we're going to work on an arguable place role we need to fix the hell out of the other roles that are garbage

So basically you mean that if other roles are fixed (like cough cough the worst neutral killing role of all time (crusader)) you would also agree that survivor needs a change?

Please explain what this means, what I meant by the before comment was that since if you already like doing it that way wouldn't it be better to actually require that to happen to win?

If roles are supposed to be fun why do roles like the ambusher that are so badly UP exist.

Because the game isn't perfect yet, and taking steps like making ambusher less op and changing survivor will help us go towards that.

What I will say is that although we are like this, not all people are. Once too many a survivor has been a fucking retard and killed the hardworking arso. No offense, although in a perfect world it would work, this is far from a perfect world. Not everyone will do as you do, and to make it fair we should change it.

It's not fair to ruin a system due to a few bad apples, unless you were the pre-1.5 disguiser where you were just bad from the start and the fix somewat helped.

How much people, do you think, in a kingmaking scenario, would outvote a person who deserves the win NOT BY CHANCE?

How exactly are you going to exploit the doctor spam healing a jailor? I think you're exaggeratting quite a bit here saying that town support doesn't do anything but votes

I mean exploitable for evils (just kill town that's not jailor), not for town. And basically TS is votes.

Mayor: 3 votes.

Don't forget really easy confirmation

Medium: A vote with a useless ability

Escort: A vote that's bait for SK/WW

And also can confirm evils like solo gf if rbed

Transporter: Basically TP

Retri: A vote that can bring another role back.

Pretty good for me and easy confirmation

IDK what you mean

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=WIFOM

'''I don't understand how it refutes my original point though. In that entry itself it says it's a 50 50 chance that they will guess it (probably less, since it isn't clear to all players that they would choose to bite a survivor). Also, how is that bad? I find that it's more satisfying to bite more people and convert them to your vamp cause, and getting some vamps killed as well. Money comes and goes.'''

'''Also I thought about that WIFOM thing like a long time before but never knew if there was a name for it. xD thanks.'''

Summary:

I feel like we've almost reached consensus here. You and I both agree (I think) that survivor is a not-so good role, and should be changed if BMG nerfs or buffs other roles like crusader, etc. Remember these wise words:

"A debate is not ended by a panel of judges, it is ended by consensus."

-Pretty sure I just made it up.

Have a good morning! (German time zone for you)