Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20171002223259/@comment-30105631-20171002234221

Jallybwan wrote: KarpToEndAllKarps wrote: FirePyre wrote: Team CovenThe Mafia is host to some of my favourite roles in ToS, behind only the Serial Killer. Which is why this is hard for me to admit - I just don't think the mafia is powerful enough to compete with the Coven, and this is because of one simple reason: ''Versatility. '''How can it be more versatile when it has 6 roles and every single one is unique? (Oh, quite easily. Each role does things that it would take two mafia to accomplish.)' The mafia have more roles than the Coven, and all of these roles are less powerful than any single member of the Coven - for example, the Framer is not as powerful as the Hex Master in the Coven. The Ambusher is not as powerful as Medusa. There is not a single mafia role that is more powerful than a Coven role except for the Godfather and the Mafioso, but the Coven's Necronomicon allows for the Coven's initial short-comings in killing ability to be improved upon by the end of the game. '''Yeah, but after the death of the Coven Leader, the Necronomicon goes to a random target. This is RNG, and I've been in a few games where that RNG decided the game. (RNG's a small price to pay, especially when each role is VERY powerful when it comes into contact with the Necronomicon.)'''

Not only that, but there are less roles in the Coven, so you are more likely to get a powerful role. '''And you're also more likely to get a useless Necromancer. And you also can't get two of a powerful role because they're all unique. (Useless Necromancer? It's a tad more useful than your FRAMER, buddy... And yes, they're unique, but that means you can only ever get ONE "useless" Necromancer. It works both ways.)'''

You can argue that the mafia have on their side, but most Coven roles exchange subtlety for more power - for example, the Coven Leader is not only a consigliere but also a role that can direct protection to the members of the coven, force people to kill themselves and others, and mess up investigative roles. '''WW is more powerful, while SK is more subtle. Notice how WW never wins? This kind of game values subtlety over raw power. (WW does actually win from time to time. And while subtlety is valued, I've already explained how the Coven can be subtle, but subtlety depends mostly on the playstyle of the person using that role. Some Werewolves like to completely avoid killing people, making everyone panic about an Arsonist.)'''

I don't think the complaint that the Coven are situational has any merit, as all Coven roles are useful in most circumstances. Overall, I think the Coven's versatility and power outweighs the subtlety the mafia have, and that is why I think overall the Coven is simply better than the mafia.

Plus the Arsonist is arguably the most subtle of all the NKs, and it is easily the hardest to win as.