Thread:Thatsmuggamer/@comment-31680260-20180411084950/@comment-27398195-20180414105213

''Whether or not the Arsonist is good is not the point. My point is, the HM is the same thing as your Framer, with the ADDED ability of Arsonist. That's still a bonus, and still makes the HM better.''

That's not the point I was trying to make, the point I was making is that the hex master is more like the arsonist than the framer.

''Um, Hex Master ALWAYS tends to visit people who aren't hexed. But they can still visit the same person to throw off the Spy.''

'''But doing so waste the night, a framer is less likely to be effected by this waste as it basically contributes nothing. While to a hex master, similar to arsonist, wasting a night can be a death sentence for the team.'''

Hex Master can do that to appear like Medusa, or a Poisoner that's trying to lay low.

Once again, see above, a framer can do this because wasting a night isn't a problem for this role.

''Hex Master's ability is BETTER than the Framer's, and it can be used for the exact same kinds of deception. GG.''

'''The abilities of DECEPTION the framer can do due to how useless it's ability is can be used for BETTER kinds of deception. Thinking outside the box is how you win ToS.'''

As I said, the Medusa trades immunity for the ability of a Janitor.

That for three nights is basically a Mafioso and Janitor combo, and then the medusa can't do anything until CL dies

And by the way, on N1, CL can't actually force the Vigilante to shoot - that's one of the differences the CL has to the Witch (where's your copy-paste argument now?)

'''Wow, one minor change, guess that means consigliere and investigator aren't basically the same role just because they did a minor change to consig to be exact. And still that is TWO nights. You basically have a 1/4 shot.'''

- so the Medusa will kill the Vigilante without being shot.

which is a 1/11 chance.

Only two NK's can kill the Medusa on N1 (assuming Juggernaut can be forced to kill), one of the others can only kill every second night, and the other one doesn't kill directly at all.

'''Don't forget the crusader, while they can't kill the medusa, they can kill possibly kill the CL and prevent the 100% 1 kill every night (HA THE CRUSADER FINALLY DID SOMETHING RIGHT.) Also you still have 2 other nights, so you also have to worry about the WW/SK/Jugg, Vig, and Crusader for those nights. At least mafia can not accidentally screw with each other (besides witch/CL/Transporter, but that also effects coven)'''

''Keep in mind that ALL OF THIS is Medusa vs Veteran - when the whole ARGUMENT is about Medusa vs Mafia. It still wins.''

Nada m8, you just played yourself.

''This is true. But the Potion Master can act as a Consigliere, as well as act like a Mafioso and a Doctor all in one. With the Necronomicon, it can reliably claim Doc or Investigator with no troubles whatsoever.''

'''And not like there's a spy and investigator who can both easily f**k them over. Same like the consigliere or Mafioso.'''

''You mean the 33.3% chance. There are only three protective Town roles. The other is a wannabe.''

Now now Jally, we still respect the ambusher even though he's s**t.

''And even if it isn't distracting Doctor, that's still an extra kill for the Coven. Plus, it's harder for the Lookout to track.''

'''Ah yes, the lookout! Not like there's 5 other TIs to worry about.'''

''If it's an Arsonist game (~30% chance). And if the Town KNOWS there is an Arsonist.''

Which should come obvious the second D3 comes around and there's no deaths, unless in the RARE chance the juggernaut gets roleblocked N2, there's an 100% chance that there's an arsonist.

You were caught up on the chances of TP's earlier, so that argument can be used here - 70% of the time, that claim is bogus.

'''And yet sometimes it still works. Trust me, town stupidity sometimes happens, I know.'''

''Dunno Haw, confirming a townie is kinda powerful. It gives the other Townies someone to whisper the roles to. That's exactly why people can't whisper to the Mayor anymore!''

So by your logic, having a confirmed townie for one day is "good".

Except Necro can control the body, and get feedback from it.

'''You cannot reanimate a player who has been stoned by the Medusa or cleaned by the Janitor. Rest of point is invalid.'''

But it's not fixed now, so it's still screwed :P

We just gotta wait.

''Still a suspicious claim. And it doesn't have any other options''

And YET somehow it STILL works.

''Assuming the person claiming is telling the truth. It's still a guess.''

I mean some are harder to confirm than others :3

''Framer kinda can't claim anything within them. They'd have to claim they were framed themselves, which can be disproven by a Spy.''

'''and that's not obvious from the results that they could POSSIBLY be framed? And you can still claim jester or another jester like claim to waste the town's time.'''

''That will out the other member of the Mafia when the Town realizes that literally nobody else has been transported. It will backfire.''

High risk high reward, and you can always visit the mayor or another confirmed role and "transport" a fellow mafia member.