Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20181230235210/@comment-28112409-20190111033357

Pokechurin wrote: Some mafia role ranking ripoff, probably ripped me off. Janitor is too high on your list. You dropped Consig down to 4 because of people revealing in jailor meta, but Janitor is suddenly immune to it? He's not. People end up claiming openly or to someone, often followed by pasting their will. Any townie that does that essentially nullifies Janitor because if you were to kill and clean him, you'd almost always confirm him as the role he claimed, and cleaning the will isn't that effective either because he pasted it with his claim anyway. The sight of the first clean will incentivize townies to record their claim by whispering to the jailor or doing it publicly, along with a pasted will. It needs to be down there with Consort and Blackmailer because it is not as powerful as you make it out to be.

Ambusher's capability of pushing KPN maximum from 1 to 2 is not being credited enough here. Having acess to multikills is way more helpful to a faction's win than you think. Having alternate plans to keep the 1 KPN more consistent or going for a larger reward and speeding up the Town's process of losing majority is an amazing utility to have, compared to a gatherer of information that is nullified by a meta and common sense.

The Mafioso should not be down with Disguiser, it needs to be up there with Hypnotist. You've completely forgotten the fact that there is a Jailor in every single Ranked game.​​​​​​​ There is also the potential for an Escort. If the GF does not have a 2nd killer under him, and he gets jailed ro roleblocked, the Town will notice no kills. When they do, they will spam jail/RB the GF to pull the KPN into a screeching halt, buying the Town a ton more time to find the NK and the other mafia, the other mafia being incapable of anything significant with their only killer neutralized. I don't know where your experience with ToS lies, but you've clearly neglected the old rolelist where there was only one GF and no confirmed Mafioso, and the mafia were getting slaughtered due to the aforementioned tactic with the jailor and the GF. You should also not neglect the fact that the Mafioso provides the potential for a 2nd GF, which is at the top of your priority list and my own.

Forger being above Framer is an outright disagreement. It's still a waste of a slot. When Forger is there, It's not "Oh at least I have utility here." when you see him, it's "There could've been a Janitor in that slot". Forger will always be the most inferior when Janitor is in the game, and whatever utility he offers means absolutely nothing because he's not providing a utility of removing information from TIs, he is inhibiting that utility from being better by taking up the slot and throwing Janitor out the window. Forger is all the way at the bottom for this alone, any role that is objectively a waste of a slot should be at the bottom of any ranking list.