Board Thread:Role Ideas (Neutral)/@comment-31680260-20170408232521/@comment-26234016-20170413141852

Jallybwan wrote: Alright - I've rethought the whole "hardcounters jailor" side. Make it so that he doesn't lose his executions - but it's still a waste that could be used on NK or Mafia. The role-dependency is still there, but here's a few things that might influence your decision:

- The "Making New Roles" page says that if you can break a rule and still make it balanced, go ahead. I personally think this is balanced (if Jailor doesn't lose his executions). The buddy-role is part of the concept, but most (decent) lists have Jailor anyway. In fact, we could make it so that there can be no Convict unless there is a Jailor. This reflects the whole "Vamp Hunter needs Vampires", and VH is considered neccessary if Vamps are around, otherwise they are too powerful. Same concept, but for Jailor.

In my above post I noted that VH is insanely broken and a mistake.

- Town has the highest win rate, and Jailor is a powerful Town role. Convict would mean that Jailor doesn't neccesarily get screwed over by executing a Convict. All it means is that they waste an execution - and Convicts can still get shot by Vig or killed by Mafia/NK.

- I know that in-game roles bypass the rules of making new roles and suggestions are under intense scrutiny, but I'm not entirely convinced that's all-encompassing. The rules are obviously useful, and they should be adhered to as much as possible. But if a role is legitimately balanced, which I think Convict is, I personally believe they could be bent a little.

- Buddy roles require another role to WIN. If the Jailor dies, the Convict becomes a Survivor - who can win with anyone. In order to win as a CONVICT, yes, they need a Jailor. But it doesn't entirely deprive them from a win if Jailor dies.

'''N- no. Maybe I misspoke when I said buddy role. Let me reiterate: it is Role-dependent.'''

- It indirectly helps NK's. Serial Killers, if jailed, are usually screwed even if Jailor doesn't exe them - if he has an up to date will then the SK will get lynched the following morning. If a Convict plays his cards right, he could get jailed - giving the NK an extra night. Serial Killer benefits the most, but WW gets a boost as well (they kill Jailor on full moons).

As Spicy said, this is a kinda unnecessary way to help NKs.

- As Hawaiian said, Vamp Hunter is a buddy role. But they have a similar alternative to the Convict - when all Vampires are dead, they become a Vigilante, so they aren't completely useless. As such, VH is considered a balanced role (even neccessary when Vamps are around).

PLEASE STOP BRINGING UP VH IT IS AN ABOMINATION THAT SHOULD BE BURIED AND NEVER RETURN

I understand the whole "Buddy role? Rejected" mindset - in most situations it means you don't waste time on something silly. But in this case I think it could be waived a little.

Also, Felix, you're considered an expert-reviewer. Better than the anons that go on and reject everything with no explanation in any case, and probably better than me.

If you still reject it, I understand - but I urge you to reconsider. I will tweak the original post to encompass the new features discussed here for a better template. Huge props for putting up this fight. But let me explain the role of the role-reviewer: We do not give the final say. BMG does. If you really think this role has a shot, throw it at BMG! But what we're here for is to kinda lessen BMG's intake of bad roles.

But I, along with HAWAIIAN, and I hope Spicy, believe that this role will get rejected by BMG.

It is Role-dependent, and honestly? It seems boring. Even more so than Jester or Executioner.