Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32994909-20180114072338/@comment-2600:387:3:800:0:0:0:1C-20180114152826

JamJamalWiki wrote: Mafia Deception is complete trash. If you don't believe me, it's okay because I will proceed to destroy each one of them.

Disguiser - It has to be dead to work, already a bad sign. Whilst it is alive, the only thing it can do is (unsuccesfully) attempt to manupilate an investigator. If it is executed by the Jailor, it was just show up as a Disguiser. If it is shot by a Vigilante, they will manupilate town but the Vigilante will not die of guilt the following night, showing it's an obvious Disguiser again. In so many situations, town can just identify you as a Disguiser. For example, if you disguise as Neutral Killing and then Neutral Killing just kills the next day, if you visit the Veteran and get shot and just show up as Veteran. if you have an incomplete/false will, or a spy can just see that a member of the Mafia visited a player who claims the same role as you and show an obvious Disguiser, there is (literally) no space for the role you claimed. But if the disguise does work and you do manupilate town, in some cases it actually makes Mafia's situation worse. Town will now think there is 2 Mafia instead of 1, and be relentlessy hunting through everyone, when you are lynched it will just cut straight to town's win and show that the disguise was just useless.

'''I liked the original Disguiser so much more. If you didn't write your name in your will you can get pretty screwed over. It also had some really great synergy with the Janitor. This new Disguiser can confuse the town sometimes but for the most part it's just going to be killed and then seen as a Disguiser.'''

Framer - I don't need to explain why this one is useless, but I'll go ahead anyway. First of all there is an incredibley low chance that there is both a Sheriff in game and that Sheriff interrogated your framed target. I am saying only Sheriff and not Investigator because Investigated results come up as Framer / Jester, which is literally Framer, Framed or Jester. Why the hell would they lynch a jester? If they don't suspect a Jester, they now know there is a Framer in game, so it is basically just giving them free information. It's also easy to prove that framed target's are framed, IF they are an easily confirmed townie role, there are no counter-claims or there is a Spy in game, so even if the frame works it might not even convince town.

'''Framer is easily the worst role in Town of Salem. It relies way to much on luck to make the sheriff find your framed target. I framed someone in a game just to get shot by a Vig that night and it turns out the Sheriff actually checked my target only for that person to reveal that they're the fucking Jailor. Honestly Framer needs a buff that lets it make Mafia members look not suspicious to the Sheriff.'''

Forger - Almost useless without a Consigliere, when there is no Consigliere the Forger just has to clear the last wills (or write something retarded which basically confirms that there is a Forger in game) which will basically show that there is probably a Forger. If there IS a Consigliere, the game would be theoritcally perfect until you learn that it won't be. Finding a Sheriff or Investigator, telling the Forger to forge them and killing them on the same night almost always gets intercepted, mostly by the Jailor. If there is no Jailor, you're in luck. In luck because you realised how useless this role is.

'''Exactly. When there's no Consig this role is just a weaker Janitor. Why forge and put random bullshit in people's wills when you can just clean them entirely?'''

Janitor - the only good one. Having a Janitor in-game is just good luck and a smiley face.

'''I used to think this role was shit and I hated playing it when I started playing ToS. Man I was so dumb back then. If you can pull off 3 successful cleans then you give tons of opportunities and claim space to the Mafia. It also is an amazing counter to Retri especially when you clean the Jailor or the Mayor.'''

Imagine a game with a Consigliere, Blackmailer, Consort, Janitor & Godfather. Such a pleasent sight, right?

Now imagine a fucking game with Framer, Forger, Disguiser & Godfather. Seriously, Mafia Support is overpowered compared to Mafia Deception. Consigliere can investigate someone to find their role, whilst Framer frames someone meekly hoping a Sheriff will interrogate them. Blackmailer silences people and reads whispers whilst Forger writes random bullshit in a will he has no fucking idea what their role is and then leaves the exact same will on everyone they forge. Consort blocks town protective, town investigative, retributionist, the Jailor and Vigilante from harming their Mafia whilst the Disguiser sits on his ass the entire game until he finally fucking dies and appears as Disguiser because he got so bored that he just ended up forgetting to disguise. Yeah I would pick Mafia Support over Mafia Deception. It's way too easy to claim Invest or Escort to town and hell even Spy with the Blackmailer. Consig is just my favorite Mafia role as a whole. It's so easy to make a fake will and just convince people that you're Invest as long as you know the results. However I'm sorry for you that you haven't played the Hypnotist yet. It's actually a good Mafia Deception role with it being able to give people different messages during the night. If your last Mafia Killing role is jailed during the night you can just visit someone and make them think that they were attacked but someone healed them. A lot of Hypnotists do claim Trans though so people are adapting to that claim. Still I agree with you on all of this.