Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20171018053338/@comment-31256456-20171019044912

TEAM BAD

This isn't about elo, it's about having good balanced winrates for everyone. Naturally, the town should have SLIGHTLY higher winrates than mafia because then more people win- if the mafia has the same winrates we have a problem, because now we have a unfair elo system. But this isn't even about elo. Elo isn't how we should judge a rolelist- that is like saying "nk has big winrates and it wins 50 percent of the time so it's good" This is about having a good rolelist. To counter argue claims that NB "was bad" or "supported town" too much- that simply isn't true. Survivor often doesn't choose a side or only does when pressured because town is scared of all nbs and lynches anyone who isn't town. Also, although people didn't necessarily liked vampires, it was unique, and with such a low chance of it happening definitely was good to mix up the game. Now let's see the new ranked rolelist and see how "good" it is. JAILOR 2 TI 1 TS 1 TP 1 TK 3 RT GF MAFIOSO 2 RM 1 NK 1 NE

Obviously not having nb worries me but the main thing is the random town. People cannot trust ti claims due to a high chance of fake claims because of 2 rm, and ne spot for witch and consig- but other mafia can also fake claim ti because of those rt spots. Moving on to those rt, it makes the whole thing impossible for anyone to find out because the real ti's cannot prove themselves and town has to worry of a exe, it makes the game centralized on town investigative roles and jailor because without them the game is almost impossible for town. The two rm spots allow for complete chaos and disorder and the town can't do anything either than hope that they can lynch a few mafia using the ti's aid (that is if we can even trust ti claims) - by then they are down 6 people and can't do anything. Town support has very little purpose either than mayor and retributionist for reviving dead ti's and jailor. Town Protective has bg which isn't even nearly close enough to helping town. TK is good but jailor simply does the job better. Doctor can give town more time but time won't do anything if they can't even find basic TI roles. The old one was not perfect but better than this, as at least it offered town a strategic way to lynch mafia. Games often either feel like town loses completely or town wins completely, instead of a feeling that "ooh, the game could go either way". Town is no longer strategic- before people worked to find out the rm and stuff but the new rm spot just makes it so we can have a consig and a janitor wreaking havoc everywhere- whereas the town can't trust anyone. You can say I don't have a aggressive style but even if you DID find out who was ti there's still 4 mafia killing rampant with no clues to catch them because of 3 rt slots and there are 4 ti claims. If they lynch one and it is a mafia, that's just pure luck. If they don't, well bad luck for you, and you'll be screwed because you don't have any infogivers! The change was not a good change, it doesn't matter if you get nk/ne elo, that's not how we should judge a rolelist- we should judge it based on how balanced it is. COMMON ARGUMENTS "But the old one was much worse" It wasn't. it was fairly balanced with a good mafia, and I seem to win more with mafia than town anyway. You just need good players. "VAMPS ARE STUPID" Which come so rarely... you could just add another mafia and remove it though, that could work much better than this. "My point is proven with insert winrate that shows mafia worse than town " The thing is, ranked players should be able to be good team members. I feel that the reason why the winrates were so high with town was because the mafia couldn't work cooperatively.