Thread:RubikJohn/@comment-37421692-20190123020345/@comment-28112409-20190124170538

Uh, that'll be a noperino on that one. Disguiser may have a great deal of restrictions but that doesn't mean he's completely useless. There is still a small but legit chance for him to pull the disguise off simply by playing his claim right.

Forger is worthless against any competent town and depends purely on the other faction making mistakes. Disguiser doesn't need the Town to make mistakes to be effective. Forger cannot throw off anyone with the current meta where TIs reveal early and make their claims.

I also don't understand how a role that can change the displayed role upon death is somehow a worse version of something that manipulates wills of others. There is a big enough difference between the two here seeing how Forger is attempting to manipulate by creating wills that differ from what has been displayed previously by the victim in question, always leading to a failure unless the town somehow doesn't notice the difference between the displayed will and the previously pasted will the player made. Meanwhile, Disguiser's ability supports his fake claiming and eliminates one of the mafia's issues when it comes to creating a claim.

You also can't simply dictate a disguiser's presence by observing mafia's "progress". The only definite and observable progress is their rate of killing, and the ambiguity of what roles the mafia could have disallow immediate recognition of a disguiser's presence.

Forger is not offensive, he is a dead weight. He ends up tripping dumbass towns more often, but tripping apes with keyboards between their buttcheeks doesn't mean anything for the reliability and consistency of a role.