Thread:Jallybwan/@comment-32783587-20180125220929/@comment-32783587-20180128155917

Jallybwan wrote:

Anons unite wrote: 1. im saying it just.. seems wrong to have all this shit happen. think about it logically. it would be any athiest's normal reponse to criticize him for that if he were real. why dont you give me proof that god is good? or lets take a step back- prove god is real! i cant prove he is not real by just using logic and how most of the things he does don't make sense. '''God is real in the same way the wind is real - you can't see Him, but you can feel His effects on the world. And in the same way, someone who doesn't believe in wind could just go "Nope, trees only move like that because they're alive. Wind doesn't exist." in the same way people try and disprove God. Someone who truly doesn't want to believe will come up with ANY explanation they can as an excuse.'''

'''effects on the world? you just said he never intervenes! the difference between the wind example and god is, everyone knows the wind is real and we have actual, physical proof of it. see, this leads back to my original point: if god would just intervene more, it would 1. make more people believe 2. make less bad things happen and 3. shut athiests up! but christians would rather hide behind the "plan" idea as an excuse for all the bad things god is doing. where did god ever say all of this was his plan? proving god is one thing, but try and prove he is actually doing well! he has a firey pit of hell for anyone who hates him, basically SCARING lots of people into believing, he lets all the bad stuff happen for "plans" or "raising awareness" or "forced gift" despite the holocaust as logically not worth any of those things.... i mean, think logically. ignore god out of this. do you think the holocaust is worth killing 20 million people? remember, ignore god. if you say no, you can say its part of gods plan, so saying "no" doesn't automatically mean you hate god. i just want an answer.'''

2. i dont get the "jesus died on the cross so we can all go to heaven" can you please explain it to me? it is kind of interesting... and plus, wouldnt you go to purgatory instead? '''*sigh*... God cannot abide by sin, it's against His perfect nature. If sin made it into Heaven, it wouldn't exactly be perfect, would it? Jesus died on the cross, intending to take that sin away from us, put it onto His body, so that it would die with Him. We can still place that sin on His dead body, but that is an active CHOICE. He will not TAKE that sin from you. You have to GIVE it to Him.'''

'''i.. dont really get it? is that bad? remember, i have never been to a church or read the bible in my life. call me ignorant, whatever. but how does dying on the cross take sin away? theres still a TON of sin today, so jesus didnt get rid of THAT many sins. plus, we did NOT all go to heaven, clearly. so jesus' plan failed. did he know that dying on the cross would have that effect, or did it just happen to turn out that way! this was before humans were even born!'''

i actually think the fairty tale -cough- RELIGION is pretty cool (if that sarcastic joke was rude pls let me know i will stop). but you call athiests illogical and not wanting to admit they are wrong. When '''have I called atheists illogical as a blanket statement? I've said that A LOT of them twist facts out of the Bible, yes, but not all of them. Addfire doesn't, for example.'''

'''ok, so what, 70% of them? A LOT of chrsitians twist facts out of science and logic, but not all of them. Jallybwan (mostly) doesn't, for example.'''

if i was a triggered athiest would get mad so be careful calling athiests that because a lot of them are ignorant i can admit that. '''That's why I haven't, and if people get offended by what I've said, they've obviously misinterpreted my words. Or they just can't accept the truth - a lot of atheists DO twist facts from the Bible. A lot of Christians do as well! It's a simple fact, not meant to offend.'''

'''but the bible does not prove god exists. it was written by man, not god. so if people twist facts from the bible, it doesnt mean they are wrong. maybe they were actually extremely inaccurate when writing the book about god, and we have it all wrong!'''

and i know youre not a triggered religious nutbag either, so thats good. many christians actually find it FUNNY that athiests make fun of them, like dark humor. same with vice versa '''See, Anons, you were actually being rather disrespectful. Just because other Christians may find it funny does not mean I will.'''

'''why though? i like when people make fun of athiests!'''

3. you missed my point- hes all powerful so he could find out some way to intervene BUT we still learn from our mistakes. you are underestimating the true power of your god. it might seem "not as.. uh whats that word... natural??" to do that, but if it causes the least pain and suffering, screw naturality. '''Anons, no matter how I think of God, I will ALWAYS be underestimating Him. That's the whole deal with literally infinite power - I CANNOT imagine just how powerful He is. And as I said before, I don't know why He does what He does, but I know He does it for a good reason. Perhaps to help us learn, because we learn a lot through suffering, through the hard way. I believe He doesn't intervene because He wants people to ASK for Him to, because otherwise you KNOW a lot of humans would get all offended and go "hey we didn't ask for this phuck off etc".'''

'''how do you KNOW he does it for a good reason? the more i hear about it, the  more i think about "god being perfect" is not all as it's cracked up to be. if god was perfect, we would have a perfect world. this is clearly not a perfect world (in basically anyone's eyes). if it IS in god's eyes, then thats screwy, because its clearly not perfect, god! and "he wants people to ask for him too?" okay god, ima ASK you to please stop the suffering in middle east and north korea, because you clearly have the power to do that, and it is obviously not ideal. hmm? nothing? thought so. would you rather suffer and learn from it or not suffer at all, with no risk of that ever happening! you cant prove that he does it for a good reason, his plan could be slowly turning the world to shit. what if satan was the nice one, trying to overthrow the ruler god, then boom. just because of one revolt, he sufferes forever. and that if gandhi did not accept jesus, and hitler did, hitler lives a good afterlife and gandhi, just because he believes in a different religion, burns. if you dont knwo much about god, how do you know that hes good?'''

4. well he clearly has not changed them to fit in with what he "wants" , because the laws of physics that we know and study today are shattered by god. '''That we KNOW and STUDY today. As I said earlier - God might not be breaking physics after all, since no good scientist would say we know everything about those physics. People try to disprove God by explaining away His acts with science, but that doesn't exactly disprove Him, since... well, tracing everything back, where did those physics come from?'''

'''physics are just how the world works, they didn't come from anywhere. sure, our laws of physics might be wrong, but we have been examining them for years. and he breaks the laws of physics that he created. it is FAR more likely that we have  the laws of physics CORRECT and god breaks them, than we have it all wrong just because of god. so are you saying our laws of physics are wrong or that they are right with the exception of god? im not really clear on your motive.. so say it so i dont argue back the wrong thing accidentally.'''

laws of physics aren't "laws of physics with the exception of omnipotent beings" it's "the only things that CAN happen, period." are you saying that our laws of physics are wrong, or that they are right with the excpetion of god btw? '''I'm not saying anything on the subject, simply voicing my beliefs. I will not pass those beliefs off as fact, which is why I almost always say "I believe...".'''

'''yet you can pass of the fact that god is real. thats an opinion. '''

'''think about it. you know god is real (and that say, buddhism is fake), right? well, there are buddhists who know their religion is real, and that christianity is fake.'''

'''so at the end of the day, there are 4 scenarios. 1, they are both real (actually that wouldnt really work... because both religions state all other ones are false). so there are 3 scenarios. 1. chrsitians are right, buddhists are wrong. 2. buddists are right, chrsitians are wrong. 3. they are both wrong.'''

'''so at the end of the day, AT LEAST ONE person who "knows" their religion is true, is false. therefore, knowing something does not make it true. so just because you know god does not mean he is true. you can't just say "well i know god is real and that the buddhists are wrong" because their belief, the buddhists, are just as strong as yours. they could say the exact same thing as you, that they touched god, whatever whatever.'''

so, KNOWING god is real does not mean it will be true, because there is a possibility that another religion is true, which they KNOW is true.

5. im not passing it as a fact. think of it logically here-  1. what seems like logical sense to an average brain that its not worth it or 2. some guy's plan that no one understands '''So you're saying that 1. The average brain is what we should all follow and 2. If we don't understand a plan then it's a bad plan?'''

'''whichever one is more logical. do you think 2 is more logical, just because of some (<"PERFECT">) guy's plan? i think 1 is more logical. but to you, god>logic, so yeah pick 2 and allow all this suffering. '''

'''Also, God is not just "some guy", because He is literally perfect. He has the bigger picture. He can see EVERYTHING, not just the things our piddly little human eyes can see.'''

ahem... " also ignore my main argument for now- it was too long to be fun anyway. that thing covered most of my points in the short little one anyway.

but there are still 2 main things that i said in the main argument that i feel like NEED to be said: first is the paradox with the omnipotent being: could god make a stone so big he couldnt even lift it? if yes, then he isnt all powerful because he cant lift it. if no, then he cant make everything, so he is not all powerful. therefore, god cannot be all powerful. but that actually might help you win this because many of my arguments rely on god being all powerful if you read my main one. what i do know is that hell is scary as... hell.... so i might end up following pascals wager. it just seems illogical that we all should be tortured forever just because someone was nice enough.

the second one- the unicorn paradox logical mind experiment theory thing- prove unicorns arent real. whatever you say can also be thrown against god.

(note: both of these came from either.io question: would you rather live knowing there is a god and die to find out there isn't one or vice versa). full of christian nut bags and stupid ignorant triggered athiests)"