Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20171002223259/@comment-32848372-20171005230459

Jallybwan wrote: HenryTheCyberCommandant wrote: SpacedefenderX wrote:

Jallybwan wrote: Team Coven!

As an opening note, Coven has much more diversity than Mafia. In a typical game of Ranked, there are four Coven/Maf. The Mafia is GUARANTEED to have two killers, which is half the team focused on the one thing. Furthermore, one of the Random Mafia slots could turn out to be an Ambusher. You'd end up with one role "calling the shots" (doing nothing), one role actually killing effectively, and the other? Ambusher? If there's a Medium, it's royally phucked. Everyone who visits who it ambushes will know its name, so even if there isn't a Medium, if more than one person visits, that's a mafia down.

As for Coven? Each role can kill in its own way, while still doing all this other stuff that the Mafia need separate roles to do. They're also much more powerful because of the Necronomicon, which they get about halfway into a typical game of ToS.

Coven Leader - A Witch, which was a powerful role in vanilla ToS. But now, when she gets the Necronomicon, she becomes so much more. Even before she does, she is essentially a Consigliere that also screws with the Town directly. If she finds a powerful role even on N1, she can just ask her Medusa (who is guaranteed in Ranked) to stone gaze that night. Then all she has to do is control that powerful role into the Medusa, and it gets wiped without a trace. The Medium might be able to relay info to the Town, yes, but it outs itself in the process. Bye bye Medium! '''Yes, it reveals itself, but what about the seance ability? (I explain this later on, but the Medium can only use that once. Furthermore, they might share the seance with someone who isn't even Town. Hell, they could even share with another Coven member...)'''

And all that's not even talking when she DOES have the Necronomicon. She becomes a frightening beast with the potential to completely screw the Town over. Imagine she finds a Vigilante. That Vig shoots whoever she wants him to, then his lifeforce is drained as well. Double kill! That's the maximum amount the Mafia can do in one night, and she's only the one role. Even if she finds a role with better defense, she knows exactly what that role is. Boom, instant claimspace as a Sheriff or somesuch. While some towns will question how exactly she knew, many will jump at the chance to kill off a powerful threat to them - which is also a threat to the Coven. '''If there is a ww or arso, it is pretty much screwed. (So? If it's a WW, she can claim to have checked them on a full moon. And even if there is an arso, she can simply guide it into the Medusa to get rid of it, and with no harm to Medusa (since dousing only endangers her if the arso can ignite, and the changed invest results give her more claimspace).)'''

Medusa - Veteran and Janitor's lovechild! Two of the most powerful roles in their factions join together to make this beast of a role, who's even GUARANTEED to be there in Ranked! Yes please! Alongside stone gazing randomly to kill someone, a common strategy is that the CL controls someone into Medusa. That poor townie's gone, and nobody will know they were a townie to begin with! And with the Necronomicon? Hoo boy, take a seat Mafioso - this girl's got a POWERFUL attack that has its own Janitor effect! Werewolf? Pfft, sit down doggo. Serial Killer? What good is a knife against a head of snake hair? '''WRONG! Even with the Necronomicon, the Medusa will be killed if it fights a werewolf rampage, and it can be killed by ANY killing role except for ambusher when using stone gaze (I may have been wrong in that regard, but she still takes the killer down with her. One large threat to the Coven is gone, and the townies don't even know that it is.)'''

Potion Master - Probably the most versatile role in the GAME, much less the Coven. It's a mix of the Doctor, the Serial Killer and the Consigliere, three AMAZING roles each in their own right. She's got a potion for everything - one of your members might fall victim to the Serial Killer? No matter, just give em a heal potion and they'll be perfectly fine! Got a quiet townie you think might be important - or even evil? Splash a reveal potion on them, and you'll know EXACTLY what they are, friend or foe! One of those idiot townspeople are getting a little too close for comfort? Bye bye! Kill potion for the win! And with the Necronomicon, all the cooldowns are removed - so she can become a walking talking service witch with something for everything at anytime! '''Ever heard of Basic Defense? (We have, but all the Mafia's killers are intimately familiar with it...)'''

Hex Master - Even a rehash of the weakest NK has something to bring to the table. Her unstoppable hexes, if used right, can halve the time it takes for her Coven to achieve victory. Each hex works like a Framer, similar to Arso, but it also makes everyone look like the Coven they're so interested in killing... makes the arso look like a baby playing with matches. The Mafia's got their Framer, sure, but it can only deal with one person at a time, and only for one night. HM still deals with one a night, but its effect is PERMANENT. Its most deadly power doesn't lie in the unstoppable attack near the end, but in the perfect ability to screw with those pesky TI's. With the Necronomicon, its attack becomes Astral and it deals a Basic attack to its target. Veterans on alert, while they might survive, won't be able to kill the HM if it wanted to. And if it isn't on alert...? Bye Vet! '''Purge? (Guardian Angel's purge? That's only a thing twice a game, and only if there is a Guardian Angel in the first place (there can't be in Ranked). Furthermore, even if the hex is purged, the HM can simply hex them again. Easy.)'''

Necromancer - My baby! Necro, while not as powerful early-game, has a veritable smorgasbord of things it can do for the Coven - and the menu's only limited to the dead people! Plus, as I mentioned before, each role kills in its own way, so that menu's gonna be getting bigger and bigger very quickly. Taking out the powerful Town roles like Doc or BG is a double win, since they can't help the Town while dead... but the Coven can appreciate their services through the Necromancer! And if a role's useless in that regard... you know how Necro was intended to be a Neutral Killer? She still is! When she gets the Necronomicon (Necro with the Necro ftw), any of those formerly useless roles are now ghouls at your command - and the command is KILL. Mafioso wishes it could be any of these roles!It doesn’t work that way, the useless roles are still useless, the Necro summons a ghoul to attack, not use a role as a ghoul (That's even better - unlimited killers! It's no longer dependent on the menu of dead bodies.)

Last but not least, the Poisoner - A delayed killer that has time to escape the scene before her victim dies. The Lookout usually won't be able to tell that it was her, unless they're REALLY smart. While her poison might be thwarted by a Doctor, it also baits said Doctor in... oh hello, there's a Werewolf in the game? She can utilize roles that aren't even in her faction to lead the Coven to victory. Even if there isn't a Werewolf, if you've got a Potion Master you're giving them a free Doctor claim. All the PM has to do is heal her target and whisper "you're welcome" to the saved townie, and they've got a loyal subject willing to defend them from the rest of the Town. Meanwhile, the Poisoner sits in the background, and now that the PM's confirmed? She can go on the poisonous rampage she wants to. If the PM's got the Necronomicon, then PM can confirm herself over and over and over until NOBODY can dispute her claim. When the Poisoner gets the Necronomicon, she doesn't even have to worry about those Doctors in the first place, so now the PM has an excuse why it isn't healing the townies who are poisoned. And now that she's not bogged down by the sickly townies begging for a Doc's touch, she has free time to pursue her other hobbies - snooping and murdering, of course. Poison can’t kill Basic Defense (Neither can anyone in the Mafia) In conclusion, the Coven's got so much diversity, so much power, that one Coven role can sub in for two Mafia. Even if two Coven are down, they're still as powerful as a full team of Mafia. Maybe even more so, thanks to the Necronomicon. Sure, they might not have voting power, but when you're killing the Town off as fast as these roles do?

You don't need it. DOWN DOGGO!

Also, although I made this reply, I would like to remain neutral in this. Don't remain neutral dammit! Neutrality is not allowed! Pick a side!

But what if i don't wish to be a person w h o m s t performs that action?