Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20181230235210/@comment-31256456-20190112005554

DragonClaw66 wrote: - Permanent Disguise: You do have a point, people do tend to reveal their role quiet early nowadays.

- Investigator Confusion: The Disguiser can cause confusion for a day or two, but most other roles have a noticeable effect throughout the entire game (role blocks, investigations, etc). I agree that there isn't much of a point in Executioners revealing their role immediately after their target is lynched, but that's just what they do.

'''Yeah that's why you're trying to stay alive as long as possible. The death thing is just if that death happens, and then it has a use. Framer, when killed, gives no disruption to the town, and is only useful when alive, same as Forger, Janitor, and every role EXCEPT disguiser. This is just icing on the cake :) '''

- 1 For 1 Trade: The best play for a Disguiser is to disguise as an investigative role and accuse another Town member of being evil (most effective with a Sheriff because when the Town finds out your target is not Mafia, they might think they were framed). Another possibility of a Town member dying after your death is if a Sheriff accuses you of being suspicious and they are then hanged. Even if a Town member is lynched after your death, it's only a 1 for 1 trade, which benefits the Town.

'''Not really. The best play is to actually stay relatively open but not too much- and convince the town that you are part of the town, putting off suspicion from you and confusing the town while giving info to keep you from suspicion. The 1 for 1 trade thing is only useful when you're close to majority which isn't really the whole point of the disguiser anyways. Disguiser is often misplayed to play like an executioner, which it's not. It's meant to stay alive, and the bonus of the confusion of your death is icing on the cake.'''

- Smart Spies: None of these roles provide any additional information the Spy with the use of their ability (besides that their target isn't Mafia). I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

'''It does. '''

1. Blackmailer isn't really all that useful but this can be a useful trick to confirm a Blackmailer in the game

2. Consort cannot claim escort reliably with a spy in game

3. Consig cannot claim invest/sheriff reliably with a spy in game

4. Forger cannot make a reliably good looking fake will with a spy in game5​​​​​

'''5. Framer is rendered useless if there's a spy in game because the Spy will see that there's probably a framer on someone if a sheriff finds a suspicious person. '''

- Vigilante: Fair enough.

- Waste Of A Slot: Just because a role is better than others, that doesn't mean it's good. I agree that the Disguiser is better than the Forger and most of the time it's better than the Framer.

'''​​​​​​​I think the main thing about our disagreement is our different definition of bad. Bad to me means it provides little utility to the mafia (which is false, it does, it gives tons of confusion and offers you a somewhat reliable way to keep you alive, thus keeping majority). Okay may mean worse than the rest of the cast, and that's fine because disguiser still offers something that is beneficial to the team. Forger barely does and Framer doesn't at all. But Disguiser does, and that makes it pretty okay as a role. Not above average, and it's still in the lower spot of a Mafia Tier List, but it isn't that bad. Thanks for the response though, I really need to practice my debate. '''

Sure, it may not be garbage, but I still don't see it as "okay". Pulling off your ability successfully requires a lot of work but is still overpowered by other roles that don't demand much effort.

Okay > Disguiser > Garbage