Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20181230235210/@comment-31256456-20190111192618

DragonClaw66 wrote: Pokechurin wrote: Honestly disguiser isn't even that bad. It's okay. Forger and Framer are both almost completely useless though. Disguiser is just as bad as both the Framer and Forger for the following reasons:

- It doesn't have a permanent disguise. If your target dies, good luck rewriting your entire fake will. Also, if you're role blocked or jailed, have fun being vulnerable for a day.

'''A Jailor meta actually favors it in some cases, where townies are likely to reveal. Disguiser basically allows you to stay safe as a claim without having the worry of invest- a very powerful TI role. Rbing makes you vulnerable and useless, but that goes for almost every single mafia role lmao. And this is one of the few roles that can go around problems of suspicion (the mafioso has this problem) keeping you safe and allowing you to claim easily without suspicion. '''

- It only confuses the Investigator. Sure, if you get hanged after being accused by a Sheriff, you might make the Town think there is a Framer, but the chance of you being a Disguiser is so much higher. There is also the possibility that the Town might think the Sheriff is an Executioner, but Executioners normally say when they win.

'''It confuses the town if it gets lynched, which SOUNDS bad, but can cause disruption and waste town a night or two, or a day. This puts the suspicion off your mafia and puts it on the possible people who try to lynch you. It is very versatile at its role. And Exe has no point of saying "I win", that's a RP tactic that no one cares about. '''

- Normally, you can only get a 1 for 1 trade. The Bodyguard's ability literally revolves around a 1 for 1 trade because it favors the Town (who has the majority).

'''Uh... not how it works. Disguiser confuses the whole town, not one person, if it pulls off its niche. If not, it can remain as is, disguising, allowing disguiser to claim a role and act town like for the whole game with no worry, unlike Framer, for example. '''

- Smart Spies counter it. You may not think it, but if a Mafia member visits a player whose role is known and the Disguiser appears to be that player's role, they might get suspicious.

That goes for Consigliere, Forger, Framer, Blackmailer, Consort, Hypnotist possibly ​​​​​​

- The Vigilante knows all. If you get shot by a Vigilante, you are revealed to be a Disguiser.

'''The Vigilante will not kill you if you don't act suspicious and act like a townie. That's the whole point of a disguise, to keep you out of suspicion, and if you do die, you get to at least disrupt the town while doing so. '''

- You're wasting a slot for a better Mafia role. Who wants a Disguiser over a Janitor, Consort, or Consigliere?​​​​​​

Agreed that Janitor, Consort, Consig are better, but just because it's worse than 3 roles doesn't make it bad.

For example, it's still much much better than forger, who has no way to defend itself if investigated by sheriff, has no disruption either than removing info, and cannot even do its role of "tricking the town" due to spy's existence

And it's also better than Framer, who has no way to defend itself either, has no way to even do anything, predictable asf.

'''You see my point? It's in the middle. Sure, it's worse than Janitor, Consort, Consig, cool. But it's also better than Forger, Framer, and can sometimes be more useful than hypnotist. It allows you to stay much more safe than other RM can, and that's a valuable niche that the Mafia could use, to disorient the town. Is it that good? No, but it isn't garbage. It's okay. '''

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Is there any particular reason you think that the Disguiser is "okay" that I might be overlooking? From where I'm standing, it's garbage. Alright I'll first ask Vert to take this one, but there's my analysis.