Board Thread:Role Ideas (Neutral)/@comment-30255850-20171015211902/@comment-27804907-20171023152800

'''I would like to remind you not to pass your opinion off as fact. Some roles are indeed just too broken to fit ToS - some of these are even very interesting. We will give our reasons as to why it doesn't work, but sometimes a role just doesn't work. You said it yourself, it's only 5% of those roles, so 95% of them can be fixed and, if the creator is dedicated enough, will be fixed.'''

Nowhere did I say you have to fix the role. If you want to review, then review. Even if the role has absolutely no way to make it into ToS, review it properly. If it's worse shituff than you've ever seen, you still need to explain why. The people I have a problem with are those who brush off a serious role with no real reasoning, or just one line saying something vague and generally unhelpful. 5% of them can't be fixed, but those creators still need to be told why they can't be fixed so they don't repeat their mistakes.

'''WE ARE NOT THE FINAL DECISION. How many times must we say it?! If a creator really thinks their role will work, they can submit it to the forums. That is something we always intend to put in our "rejection" message (which we will hopefully scrap in the future). But those forums are much more brutal than us. I've seen a serious role replied to as "Joke roles aren't allowed. Get this trash outta here." So if you don't wanna go through us? Fine. Don't. But you'll have to go through people who won't even give you the time of day, in my experience.'''

You aren't the final decision. So don't reject or accept roles. You don't have the permission to do that, since you have no sway over what does get accepted. You can give them your opinion, and you can personally say that you find a role bad and that it wont fit, but rejecting it makes it sound like you have some power over their role getting to BMG or into TG, which you don't, at least not more than anyone else.

'''There is a fine line between criticism and insults, and you're treading that line very finely. I've explained why this isn't the case.'''

If anything I say insults you, tell me such. If I agree I was out of line, I will apologize. I shall not apologize for stating what I believe is the truth. If you can't take the time to properly tear apart a role that you believe needs to be torn apart and left to die, then you need to leave reviewing to those who can, at least on the roles you can't properly respond to. I have every right to insult someone who posts on a role idea without even trying to put effort into it, since they're insulting the creator as well. If you think someone's idea is terrible and should be banished to the eleventh dimension, tell them why. If you're going to be that harsh with someone's ideas, you have to explain why. Not explaining why is the real insult here, not my blunt tone.

'''No, we're not like him and you know we're not. Find an example of a role reviewer actually being rude and insulting a creator, and you'll actually have evidence to back up your point here.'''

I am not here to talk about you, or the majority of the people here. Who is this "We" you're speaking of? The wiki community as a whole? I mean no harm to them. I've seen plenty of good people so far here. If that "We" refers to role reviewers, I haven't seen enough to know what the majority looks like, so my opinion doesn't extend to them. However, if that "We" refers to the people who decide to leave a meaningless review and then reject it as if they have some sort of divine right, then yes, you are exactly like him. Your use of the word we says you and he are in the same group, yet the specific group you refer to I cannot figure out. He's one of the people who occasionally decide to waste their time reviewing roles, while simultaniously acting as if he didn't have the time to spare to actually review properly. So if he is part of your "We", then I know you're just like him. To try and protect someone who is clearly in the wrong shows that I shouldn't even put an attempt to argue with you here. However, I doubt you are referring to him as part of your "We", so I must ask, who are you trying to refer to? The wiki community is what I would assume, having read your post fully. It's odd to me that you would assume I'm somehow attacking the entire community when I've made it painfully clear that I've only got a problem with those who treat a role idea like nothing more than a mild inconvenience, and I'm not saying that everyone acts that way. Again, if it's people who post low quality posts, I have no reason to post examples. You know what it would look like if they do, I'm just saying to make sure it doesn't happen. If there are no people who make poor reviews like I describe here, then just consider this a PSA and a guideline for all future reviewers to hopefully consider before posting. Maybe I'm just making a fuss over nothing, and I'll accept that I'm wrong if I am. Not everyone who posts bad reviews like the guy's I mentioned before always posts reviews of that trash calibur, and I'm not saying they do. I'm saying that we should be trying to prevent low quality and poor reviews. If someone does post one and they're clearly just new? Help them learn. If they've been around for a while and still do it? Well, then we need to teach them to shut their mouth - while not stooping to their level. Don't insult them over it, just help them realize they're wasting everyone's time. If they cross the line between being a critic and being a loudmouthed donkey-hole, report them. If their insults haven't reached that level yet, then just "subtly" remind them that should it ever reach said level, they will be dealt with swiftly and carelessly just like the way they treat others' ideas.

Your final quote shows the problem in your argument. You see me as insulting your family, which I am not doing. I am insulting your little brother's bratty attitude when it comes to sharing - if the wiki is your family, then these role reviewers I describe are the family member you may still care about, but that doesn't change the fact that occasionally they may do something inappropriate and bad. I mean nothing against this community as a whole. The forums have similar people who make poor reviews and irritate me, however as a whole the community isn't bad there. I'm talking about a hopefully very small number of people, if there is any real number at all. Perhaps you're a little biased, assuming I'm out to hurt the wiki when I'm not. I've not seen much here yet, but I can tell the people aren't all bad, however you seem to be acting out of the assumption I don't know that. I don't see anyone here as below me, I don't see anyone here as a lesser, we're all people who decided to play ToS at one point or another, saw the community/communities, and decided to stick around. If my efforts to better said communities come off as a little harsh and rude, so be it. Being polite on the internet when not in some official capacity doesn't work out well ofttimes.

Basically, I'm not out to hurt the wiki or to insult it,