Thread:Thatsmuggamer/@comment-31680260-20180411084950/@comment-31680260-20180414092811

HAWAIIANpikachu wrote:

The arsonist is a slow AF killer that slowly douses it's targets, the exact same way the hex master is. '''Whether or not the Arsonist is good is not the point. My point is, the HM is the same thing as your Framer, with the ADDED ability of Arsonist. That's still a bonus, and still makes the HM better.'''

However, the framer has one ability that the hex master does not, deception. '''...Do you even know how HM works? lol'''

If there is a spy in the game, the framer can do many things to f**k with said Spy, he can randomly visit people to seem like the consigliere '''Um, Hex Master ALWAYS tends to visit people who aren't hexed. But they can still visit the same person to throw off the Spy.'''

he can also choose not to frame people to look like the forger, janitor or ambusher(who didn't instantly alt+F4) Hex Master can do that to appear like Medusa, or a Poisoner that's trying to lay low.

And what is ToS? A game of deception. His ability is so bad that you can use it for mindgames. '''Hex Master's ability is BETTER than the Framer's, and it can be used for the exact same kinds of deception. GG.'''

Let us not forget that a strategy is to use the CL+Medusa to clean someone and kill them every night. You could get unlucky and get shot by a killing role, such as the vigilante. Not only that, but it is LAUGHABLE compared to veteran as it can be roleblocked by an escort, consort or pirate. '''As I said, the Medusa trades immunity for the ability of a Janitor. And by the way, on N1, CL can't actually force the Vigilante to shoot - that's one of the differences the CL has to the Witch (where's your copy-paste argument now?) - so the Medusa will kill the Vigilante without being shot. Only two NK's can kill the Medusa on N1 (assuming Juggernaut can be forced to kill), one of the others can only kill every second night, and the other one doesn't kill directly at all. Keep in mind that ALL OF THIS is Medusa vs Veteran - when the whole ARGUMENT is about Medusa vs Mafia. It still wins.'''

"The Necronomicon allows you to visit people and turn them and ANYONE that visits them to stone. Use this to kill enemy night immune roles like the Godfather, and other Neutral Killing roles."

However, the coven leader is a more obvious role compared to a consigliere. Town's are going to be more on guard about TI claims when there's a CL around. '''This is true. But the Potion Master can act as a Consigliere, as well as act like a Mafioso and a Doctor all in one. With the Necronomicon, it can reliably claim Doc or Investigator with no troubles whatsoever. '''

That only happens if you get the 25% chance of doc being TP, any other TP doesn't have to care. (or the 3 ~5% chances of doc being RT) '''You mean the 33.3% chance. There are only three protective Town roles. The other is a wannabe. And even if it isn't distracting Doctor, that's still an extra kill for the Coven. Plus, it's harder for the Lookout to track.'''


 * Your GF is basically forced into claiming BG if no townies have been killed by Crusader. BG is a VERY well-known GF claim.

False if it is an arsonist game, where the godfather can claim basically any Town role available. And if there's a hex master and the GF gets hexed the same is followed. '''If it's an Arsonist game (~30% chance). And if the Town KNOWS there is an Arsonist. You were caught up on the chances of TP's earlier, so that argument can be used here - 70% of the time, that claim is bogus.'''


 * Mafioso either claims Vigilante (another useless claim if someone asks you to prove it) or Veteran (a unique role that can be easily counter-claimed, or even just straight-up disproven when someone asks you to alert).

However, not many roles would willing risk killing themselves over trying to confirm the vigilante. You would have to hope for someone to confirm a non-immune mafia or the jester. '''Dunno Haw, confirming a townie is kinda powerful. It gives the other Townies someone to whisper the roles to. That's exactly why people can't whisper to the Mayor anymore!'''


 * Janitor has to claim MEDIUM of all roles, and you already know Medium claims are never trusted. Real Mediums can easily disprove them. The only other claim is Retri, and I shouldn't have to explain why it's a bad claim.

However, a janitor is more LIKELY to get away compared to a necromancer. If there is a cleaned/hexed role, the janitor can say "Dead say that X is ___" Compared to Necro having to completely randomly guess if there's a cleaned/stoned. '''Except Necro can control the body, and get feedback from it. If the Necro gets an investigator result back, they know the role. If someone is shot, they know the role. And even if nothing happens, the very FACT that nothing happens narrows down the guessing a heck of a lot. Combine that with the role list, and you can do virtually the same thing Janitor does. This is all assuming there's even a Medium to counter the Necro's claim anyway.'''


 * Ambusher's phucked no matter what it tries to claim because of the name-revealing thing.

And thank god that can BE fixed eventually But it's not fixed now, so it's still screwed :P


 * A Consort is forced to claim Escort (since Transporter requires people to come forward and say they were transed), and any half-decent Spy can disprove them by looking at visits.

This is of course if there IS a spy, which is a 1/4 to 1/6 depending on Mafia or Coven '''Still a suspicious claim. And it doesn't have any other options.'''


 * Blackmailers have to claim Spy, since the other options are Jailor (phuck no) and GA (need to prove yourself by protecting someone).

Fair enough there.


 * Disguiser basically doesn't have a result, and it doesn't even know what its new result is. So if it's questioned, there's no way it can make a claim that pleases the Investigator.

Unless Disg decides to pay attention to claims during the day and chooses to counter claim, visiting that person to waste the TIs time by 1/2 nights. '''Assuming the person claiming is telling the truth. It's still a guess. '''


 * Forger has to claim Lookout, and people know whether or not they visited someone on the night specified. Even if they don't go with visiting, a will full of "no visitors" is suspicious as heck.

Once again true.


 * Don't have to explain Framer.

Already explained why framer can possibly be a good role, in fact I'm actually going to post a possible strategy in a blog. '''Looking forward to it! But I was talking about the invest results - Framer kinda can't claim anything within them. They'd have to claim they were framed themselves, which can be disproven by a Spy.'''


 * Hypnotist can potentially claim Transporter, except for one thing. It can only make one person think they were transported per night. So it's still a bad claim. Also, most roles will know whether or not they were actually role-blocked (if you try and claim Escort) just by the information a lot of them receive from doing their abilities. TI's are all out, for example, so if you try and claim you roleblocked one of them you're instantly dead.

A hypnotist can claim to be transporting themselves or another member of the mafia, both have their risks and rewards. '''That will out the other member of the Mafia when the Town realizes that literally nobody else has been transported. It will backfire.'''