Board Thread:Role Ideas (Neutral)/@comment-31680260-20170408232521/@comment-32487879-20170413111427

Jallybwan wrote: Alright - I've rethought the whole "hardcounters jailor" side. Make it so that he doesn't lose his executions - but it's still a waste that could be used on NK or Mafia. The role-dependency is still there, but here's a few things that might influence your decision:

- The "Making New Roles" page says that if you can break a rule and still make it balanced, go ahead. I personally think this is balanced (if Jailor doesn't lose his executions). The buddy-role is part of the concept, but most (decent) lists have Jailor anyway. In fact, we could make it so that there can be no Convict unless there is a Jailor. This reflects the whole "Vamp Hunter needs Vampires", and VH is considered neccessary if Vamps are around, otherwise they are too powerful. Same concept, but for Jailor. - Town has the highest win rate, and Jailor is a powerful Town role. Convict would mean that Jailor doesn't neccesarily get screwed over by executing a Convict. All it means is that they waste an execution - and Convicts can still get shot by Vig or killed by Mafia/NK. - I know that in-game roles bypass the rules of making new roles and suggestions are under intense scrutiny, but I'm not entirely convinced that's all-encompassing. The rules are obviously useful, and they should be adhered to as much as possible. But if a role is legitimately balanced, which I think Convict is, I personally believe they could be bent a little. - Buddy roles require another role to WIN. If the Jailor dies, the Convict becomes a Survivor - who can win with anyone. In order to win as a CONVICT, yes, they need a Jailor. But it doesn't entirely deprive them from a win if Jailor dies. - It indirectly helps NK's. Serial Killers, if jailed, are usually screwed even if Jailor doesn't exe them - if he has an up to date will then the SK will get lynched the following morning. If a Convict plays his cards right, he could get jailed - giving the NK an extra night. Serial Killer benefits the most, but WW gets a boost as well (they kill Jailor on full moons). - As Hawaiian said, Vamp Hunter is a buddy role. But they have a similar alternative to the Convict - when all Vampires are dead, they become a Vigilante, so they aren't completely useless. As such, VH is considered a balanced role (even neccessary when Vamps are around). I understand the whole "Buddy role? Rejected" mindset - in most situations it means you don't waste time on something silly. But in this case I think it could be waived a little.
 * Well, here's the issue. There's no really issue to affect Jailor's gameplay, as the Jailor is a well balanced role. There's a reason why it's always listed separately, and not commonly found at the TK slot.
 * Well, then what's the point? Convict literally can't exist that way!
 * Well, sure. It's as balanced as a Jester is, and has just as hard of a goal as a Jester. To get killed.
 * Hmm. There's an issue right here. This means that you're converting a role from one alignment to another. That doesn't go well.
 * Honestly? I think Neutral Killing had already enough ways to deal with Jailor, and this doesn't really need to exist to counter Jailor.
 * Well, you gotta realize that Vampire Hunter is surprisingly overpowered in theory. People just tend to never see it around. It will kill Vampires in ANY SITUATION. That's why we always talk about Buddy roles being not great, and whenever Vampire Hunter comes up? It's an overstuffed hardcounter.

Also, Felix, you're considered an expert-reviewer. Better than the anons that go on and reject everything with no explanation in any case, and probably better than me. If you still reject it, I understand - but I urge you to reconsider. I will tweak the original post to encompass the new features discussed here for a better template. Regard the above issues that I talked about. I'll gladly talk with you about how to fix this role!
 * Aww thanks