Board Thread:Role Ideas (Rework)/@comment-32994909-20171221154748/@comment-32881402-20171223192206

Octometaknight wrote: If balancing (early) TI claims isn't the purpose of Executioner/Jester, what is the purpose in your mind? Frankly, if it's 'coincidential' that these roles nerf the highest winning faction in the game, I'm all for it, even if that wasn't its intended purpose.

To me, Exe/Jester disrupts the Town's ability to safely give out information in day chat, especially in the early game. Their mere existence as role serves that purpose, and making the Town think more beyond just assuming the day 2 Sheriff claim is right is a good change in my mind. It isn't though. It just makes Town think again for no reason. There's often no proof to say that one person is or isn't what they claim to be. It destroys the meta and limits Town's communication because of this risk which really shouldn't exist. It disrupts the Town, maybe, but it doesn't do it solidly enough, as it relies on daychat. It destroys the meta surrounding the Town, but not the Town. This indirect disruption isn't reliable for scum, as opposed to Witch's relatively consistent controlling which can actively disrupt Town and find scum to ally with.

Their purpose is to achieve their goal. An NE's purpose is to disrupt the Town (see the NE standard goal), but the good NEs do it actively and more consistently like the Witch. These roles just destroy the meta and rely on daychat for them to be helpful, but that's massively swingy and destroys the aspect of skill in-game. It may not be coincidence, but an NE's prupose is to nerf the Town. These roles just don't do it consistently or effectively enough to call them properly evil.

Take a look at the Executioner - it hangs its target then has no alliance whatsoever. It's an awful evil role, since the mandatory impact for achieving its goal is tiny. It doesn't have to hang 6 Town. It doesn't have to win with scum. It just has to achieve its tiny goal. The Neutral Benign alignment is currently a mess and is definetely Town-sided. I've said why this role won't fit into the alignment already.

The Jester could probably fit into the alignment better, but when it has scum as its target it can be devastating.

Ultimately, the roles both destroy meta and make the game a lot less skillful. That's why they're awful roles.