Board Thread:Role Ideas (Custom Game Modes (Setups))/@comment-44512941-20191126102135/@comment-2A02:2F09:0:3A00:9D0E:95F1:D40:2D01-20191209114142

GamesManiac wrote: 2A02:2F09:102:E900:4023:D803:9EC1:C4A6 wrote: Good luck for anyone in the wiki or in the phpbb forum to make role ideas because most of them are terrible because it's hard thinking of a unique good role idea wish so many rules.But rules are rules, so i say rather give up because the game has most of the roles it needs.I could be wrong, though. Not sure what kind of role is considered "terrible", but "unfit" is a better choice of word. Civilian doesn't work in ToS, but works fine in classic Werewolf game. Spy is nearly broken in ToS, but has almost no function in classic deception game. Some of the game even consists of handicapped role which is a big taboo in ToS. There're always contextual differences, no one is able to tell whether the role is good or bad by nature, but can only determine whether the role fit to be in ToS or not. Who knows it works well in ToL?

I agree it's hard to make good role, but not solely because of rules. Rules ban only aspect which is majorly disruptive to game balance. Rules can restrict your creativity, but the freedom is still there. As long as the role doesn't pose any issue to the game, much probably it doesn't break any rule at all. It's not that hard to dodge all the no's. Although rules exist, breaking them is acceptable when the rationale of breaking them outweigh the reason of their existence.

Role exists for 2 purposes: operation & commercial. The game overly fulfilled the operation basis where deception game needs only a "Murderer", "Police", and all other "Civilian" to operate. Anything besides that is regarded as "oversupply". ToS is oversupplied, so is every deception game out there. But speaking of commercial purpose, even hundred isn't enough. The game always need something new to keep it fresh. A game dies if no new content is available. Also, I don't agree with the idea "the game has most of the roles it needs, so we couldn't possibly make new role anymore as everything is covered". Even all of the existing mechanic is covered, you can still design new mechanic, playstyle or even UI, like the currency mechanic is widely suggested but people are not pulling it off. Perhaps you can give a try.

Overall, ToS is still lacking. There's a lot of things we can do to fix the game. Apologize in advance if things sound harsh. I'm not forcing you to stay and keep up with role-making, but it's a pity that you gave up because of some misconceptions. You want to try some more, I can definitely help. OK, you have a point that games new new stuff to keep it fresh, but i'd rather still give up.Of course, some of the roles in the game are pretty OP or UP and that's why i think good rework ideas are (or at least were) easier to think about then role ideas were and are now.Whenever i see a role idea and see even a singular atrribute or ability etc. that seems problematic, i think the role idea is not good enough and it will never be added unless it's reworked slightly at the very least. And BMG itself to me cares more about the current roles and their issues than of new roles because afterall, the current roles need to be balanced.