Thread:Jallybwan/@comment-32783587-20180203164053/@comment-32783587-20180207164212

k time for my argument... finally!

so ima break it down so its more simple.. sorry for making 25 different things with not much correlation.. ill try not to repeat arguments this time.

FIRST MAIN ARGUMENT: SUFFERING (a huge chunk of the argument)

so, for suffering, you mention why its ok for different reasons... 1. we created suffering, not god (biggest one), 2. god is actually helping suffering (goes along with 1), and 3. you dont understand everything.

before you say "all of these can be true" that really cant be, because 1 and 3 don't really go together. for some suffering arguments, you try and argue back logically (im pretty sure youre using speculation?) but for some others, you agree it might not be the most logical thing, but you cant understand anything about god. the weird thing is, i repeated the same arguments (my mistake), but you branched off mostly 1 and 3, depsite them being mostly the same! since they cant really go together, which one is it! this is where the confusion is coming in, because i dont know what your MAIN point is. for example, when you say point 3, are you saying its illogical to YOURESELF (but its still logical because of god) or are you still saying its LOGICAL just that you dont get it yet?

you say, that i cant say that if god WAS perfect, he would have done X. but how do you know that god is perfect despite him NOT doing Y? there are some things about god that you dont understand, and  (maybe?) seem illogical to you, so how do you know he is good if you dont understand lots about him?

i will say that if god is perfect, the world would be perfect (before you use any analogies let me explain) god is perfect right? so, he could change his plan to make the world perfect but still have his plan be valid. if his plan does NOT include  everything being good,which is what i think you are tying to say, then either you get a paradox (if god changes is plan to be good, but keeping his original plan being bad, then how is that possible) or he is not perfect (why not have an added bonus of the world being perfect along with the plan? the second one seems more valid, so why not? unless if his definition of "perfect" is different. but what is better than everything being happy!

Subargument of suffering: holocaust (large part of the argument)

so youre saying hitler made holocaust, but god made everything better? so all the bad things that happen are humanity's fault, but all the good things that happen are from god? please explain, considering they are similar events caused by seemingly completely different things?

another part that is really confusing me is creating people. like, would that be rude to not create hitler if you know what he will do? do you only create their personalities, or physical forms? could you create the same person, but under completely different conditions? because obviously our parents create us, but how does god have any say? this is confusing me..

im still saying, god could create hitler without making the holocaust, right? so it is kind of his fault for creating him that way.. im thinking that he could still make hitler with his free will but not make the holocaust...... you can still "mess with hitler" but keep his free will EITHER WAY! i dont know how, but i guess he could do it???? but again, this is unclear, could you please explain what creating people means? if you cant, thats fine but this kind of makes this part of the argument a dead end.

stop saying "would you punish someone for what they are going to do" the answer is yes and no. if you are 100% certain that person x will murder person y, then yes, throw them in jail. but if you have control over it, why let that happen? you can just change everyone to be perfect? you will either continue saying "but that would violate free will and 1 million other things" ive already explained that with unlimited power you could do it, or 2. just say its part of his plan. this is WAY more logical then trying to explain everything, since alas, you cant understand god, but it puts argument in a dead end.

stop using the father son thing. in this case, the father knows he will not just sin a few times, but do horrible things, AND has the power to stop it, but does not, so it is comletely different.

im sorry for keeping on repeating "whys the world not perfect wah wah" but you say 2 different things, 1. because that would mean god would have to create a perfect world, which is invalid because he did not make a perfect world? (doesnt make sense) or part of god's plan, which makes more sense. so WHY is the world not perfect?