Board Thread:Role Ideas (Mafia)/@comment-32651233-20180622213420/@comment-32329805-20180625031508

GamesManiac wrote: Just because the fact that Forger and Janitor co-exist, Forger receives so much complain for being UP and overlapped with Janitor. Forger was created because people who funded ToS during early kickstarter asked for Forger's implementation. People paid BMG to create Forger which was originally suggested by the community. Unless you have people to support your idea and pay for that to happen otherwise I don't see why a role with similar utility need to be added.

Play a game without Jailor META, you might have few nights where you target had no visitors. LO isn't OP by default, it simply goes along with META that makes it an important role in that particular strategy. The reason LO is put under the label of OP is because there are a lot of existing roles which are readily to confirm. In a game without confirmed Town, LO is nothing close to OP as it only has probability of 2/14 to witness Mafia/NK killing your target, maximum 5/14 for Coven. Seeing event other than that only proves nothing but the visitors are probably some innocent or evil visiting role.

Speaking of investigative role for Mafia, I don't understand why Mafia needs an addition of role as such. During the season of VFR, Last Will is no longer something confidential or whatsoever secret. People just throw them around for both accusing and defending. Besides that, other than fake claim, I don't see any other use of it. It's not like Mafia needs a lot of investigation for factional progression. Knowing exact role is already sufficient to support Mafia members' activity. Any add-on of Consig is unnecessarily OP, but it isn't to benefit Mafia. ''Read a Tracker will. Know that A visited B, C visited D... So? What can Mafia do with these information?'' Even though they copy Last Will of a confirmed Town for more appropriate claim, how are they suppose to progress it further? "Yass! Took a Transporter claim! So what to write next?"  Anything that is easy to fabricate doesn't get Mafia away from gallow. And won't people suspicious of Last Will exactly same as theirs or only slightly modified? There is Spy to debunk everything. At the end, it works like a plain Consig with limited use in spite of all those addition. I'm going to have to shoot you down on one part. So, what can you use with seeing a Will's history? Well, more then you think. If you successfully get an Investigative role (Which is confirmed in ranked practice), you have all of their information for the entire Mafia to see the next night. A Consigliere couldn't do that. Even some non-investigative roles can help. If you find a Jailor, you know who everyone they jailed claimed. If you find a Medium, you'll know what the dead are talking about.

And although sure, "Well VFR means everyone already shares their wills", this is pretty uncommon outside of Ranked. And Ranked is broken as flummery by metas.