Board Thread:Role Ideas (Rework)/@comment-33167183-20181022215610/@comment-27575896-20181024042448

Betimawesome wrote: 1: nerf. I've been told time and time again that "The 's advantage over the is decieving the ."...So why on earth does  frame their target? It's a role that LITERALLY kills everyone who isn't on their team in a matter of ~4 nights, i've seen earlier more than once before. Get rid of the Frame ability.

'''Holy shit, what games do you play? I rarely see HM's get to their final kill and they end up just dying.'''

'''Yes, the Mafia are designed for secrecy and to decieve the Town. The Coven is to destroy the Town and murder them. However, neither faction stays alive if they can't cover themselves up or deflect suspicion onto someone else. Plus, it makes sense lore wise- someone investigating or checking someone who is emitting a foul purple aura is probably gonna be suspicious.'''

2: buff. Unlike and,  doesn't get to use their ability when roleblocked.

"s biggest disadvantage should be time" - BMG. So can't we make douse roleblockers? '''Because it's pointless in the long-run, especially if the Arsonist is known since they aren't able to do jack shit. Also, it just nerfs it in terms of Esc/Cons wills-if they get ignited later on, just check who they last roleblocked. We don't need to have the Arso follow the prospects of the SK or Werewolf. Plus, a Tracker can just instantly catch you or a Lookout, since you would visit them instead.'''

3: All Buff. Playing as a in  Ranked Practice is a nightmare. There's a 1/11 chance you'll be found night one. That may not seem like a lot, but it is. And once you are, you become the 's personal little puppet. If you're a, She can make you suicide. If you're a or, you'll be used to get kills night 4+. But if it is Night One, you'll be spared the mercy at. If it's later than night three, You're a slave and you have no chance of winning unless the or  during the day spare you. Yeah, Just make all control immune.

'''As an overall factor, yes. Send this away. Someone can argue that in tough situations the CL may need to control the NK to win the game, but they should instead find a way to lynch them or remain alive themselves.'''

4: buff. 's biggest issue is that it only affects Two roles. Let's do this. and will see your target as the  who attacks. can view your target is an evil role in their vision, and can not see visiting. Let's also make it where Frames are perma, but can only be done four times. And Finally, Because of and, let's make framer unique.

'''Lookout and Tracker will see your target as the Mafia Killing? WHAT? How does this work...? This shouldn't be an issue. The only one I agree with here is the Spy buff. Psychics shouldn't be affected since it applies with the LORE of ToS, even if it isn't good game-wise. A piece of paper should not swap out a literal VISION. (Also, it's pretty pointless since people would either claim framed on it or their role claim could be confirmed quickly, indiciating a Framer)'''

5: . Okay. So every suggestion I hear involves "Making it pre 1.5" which wasn't good, like, at all. Involves making it OP, or involves it making disguises perma, which isn't bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it REQUIRES YOU TO BE DEAD, which takes a number's disadvantage. For a faction like, you need all the numbers with that 1 KPN. Remove, and give Forgeless , and cleanless the ability to disguise.

'''Giving the Forger and Janitor the ability to disguise is pretty pointless and isn't that easy to code, considering you need to use your three cleans and then switch to disguises. This will actually hurt Townies more than ever since you can force a Jan/Forger to appear as a Town role now.'''

'''The point of Disguiser is to force the Town into thinking they've done a terrible mistake if played correctly. This means you can make up tha deficit by having the Town lynch another common or similar claim, or even better having a Vigi or Jailor executed them.'''

6: : Everyone knows the name reveal is shit. Make it: If theres >1 visitor, the won't attack and no one knows name. If theres only 1, he attacks and no one knows name.

'''It's a MAFIA KILLING, designed to KILL targets. Forcing to remain away from a kill hurts in the long run with only a 1 KPN kill. Sure, the name reveal isn't great, but you need something against it to make it unique. It also relies on Mediums and Retri's to do their job, more on Mediums so they may have something to do for once, but this is where a Janitor comes in to stop this.'''

7: Sons of absolute harlots. I hate this faction so much. Unpopular opinion, I know. Just allow to find, that'd make it so much better. I mean, can find them as the Framed/Jest/Framer line, so why not ? People are begging for a buff anyway. '''Vampires are supposed to be that secret faction that reveals at the last moment. This would add on MORE pressure of being a Vampire due to the fact that you can easily be killed and now easily discovered by a Sheriff.'''

8: : Allows to reanimate that always uses Attack potion. Allows to reanimate to use final hex, instead of just frame (which should be gone) Allows to reanimate  without dying (I never understood that...) These three changes would improve the role significantly.

PM: Perfectly fine. '''Hex Master: There isn't much difference between a ghoul and hex other than the Hex is astral and can bypass TP. A ghoul won't result in your death, and can kill Bodyguards while you don't feel anything.''' '''Pestilence: Game-wise it isn't good, but lore wise it makes sense. You are attempting to revive a fucking GOD for your own bidding. A god of disease or death. It ain't gonna work out. Also this only happens since Necromancers visit their dead targets, visiting a Pest results in them attacking you, which is why it occurs.'''

9: {{Poison- MAN! make poison silent (no message) rather than make it uncurable. To offset this, perhaps make it do Powerful Attack too?

'''HAH! Ha, hah....oh you made me laugh. Silent poisons? You have no fucking idea how overpowered that would be. It heavily nerfs Doctors and even a fucking Guardian Angel from doing their job correctly. Plus, a Powerful attack isn't neccessary for this attack by itself, ESPECIALLY if it's WITHOUT the Necronomicon. I would suggest to make it incurable and undetectable AFTER you gain the Necronomicon.'''

10: Medusa Make it have Basic attack when visiting with the necronomicon. It should have no reason to be able kill NK/GF/PB/Vester while visiting.

'''Lore wise, this sucks. Game wise, this REALLY sucks. Sometimes you may NEED to kill these certain roles, and it solidifes that you can actually kill someone in a gamemode, especially chaos game modes. It's for balance.'''

11: Pestilence. Okay. Either get rid of the message that comes with transformation, OR give him unstoppable attack. I'm so tired of being lynched as soon as I become pest, and hitting jailed/healed/crusadered targets EVERY SINGLE TIME except for two times. And i'm sure a lot of other people have the same fate as me '''Being lynched quickly is a given, if they didn't play correctly. You should be able to at least direct the blame onto someone else. You should be able to just give yourself enough time to kill off enough other people to win. PB should be used as a LATE GAME role.'''

'''Also, an Unstoppable attack is pretty fucking overpowered, bypassing EVERYTHING. This isn't a Juggernaut, it's an Invincible role that decimates the Town from VISITS and not just from ATTACKING people. It has a powerful attack for literal balance.'''

'''​​​​​​​Also, FIND ANY ALLIES YOU CAN. That is how you win. You need the support of all bystander neutrals. They probably are gonna help you anyway if they can.'''