Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20180228113931/@comment-34951699-20180310012307

MewSeeko wrote: Spoon King Gus wrote: Crusader is better than Ambusher, and not just for being a better role itself, but also for how that role compares to its other roles in the faction

Crusader isn't really that bad. It's pretty obvious who they're going to visit, and usually town doesn't have any buisness visiting the person a Crusader intends to visit (Excluding other TP's, unless they are aware of a Crusader's Pressence) At most, town should only lose members to a Crusader once, because they don't know one is in the game. Even if it usually doesn't kill the attacker, unlike BG, They also don't usually die when there is an attacker, unlike BG. (Excluding if the attacker is either a Werewolf, or Pestilence).

Ambusher, on the other hand, is worse than almost every other mafia role. They are very few times where an Ambusher is prefferable over something like a Janitor, Consigliere, Forger, or even a Framer. The only time where Ambusher would really be prefferable is in a match with 4 Doctors / Bodyguards, or if you already have one of those roles. Even if that dream scenario occurs, there are STILL scenarios within that scenario where, say, the doctor heals someone you attacked, alerting them who you are, and getting you killed the next day. You have to get into such a specific scenario for Ambusher to compare to the other mafia roles, that having one instead of a different mafia role itself harms the mafia. FRAMER IS PRETTY MUCH LAME

I UNDERSTAND FORGER BUT FRAMER?!?!?! ://////// I was a bit hesitant to say Framer, but there are simply more scenarios where Framer can be useful than there are Ambusher. Framer's existance in the game changes the entire mindset of Sheriffs and Investigators, primarily the former, which almost can't even use mafia claims. Invest now has an immensely troublesome time actually finding the framer, which is a vote for mafia, while Anyone can find the Ambusher. I don't know if the person Ambusher attacks sees the ambusher, thus Medium could figure out, but if that could happen, Ambusher would just be that much worse. Simply not being able to find a mafia member in itself is a fairly powerful ability, as Almost every mafia game is won by Majority votes.