Thread:Jallybwan/@comment-32783587-20180125220929/@comment-32783587-20180130210655

Jallybwan wrote: Anons unite wrote: free will is good... for MOST people. '''Free will is given to us at birth. Would you punish someone for something they haven't done yet? A priest saved Hitler as a child from drowning - is that priest then responsible for the Holocaust?''' '''but the difference is the priest will not know that hitler would eventually do that. god did because hes all knowing. so if he knew that hitler would make a holocaust, then yes punish him. or, intervene, as i said. '''

but he would know that there would be suffering and pain in the world because of people abusing that free will power. so im not saying get rid of that free will stuff, but t least intervene a little to make the world better. '''I've countered this point so many times it's not funny... WHAT PART OF "LEARN THE HARD WAY" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND'''

WHAT PART OF "LEARN THE HARD WAY" IS NOT WORTH SLAUGHTERING MILLIONS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND

you keep saying thats part of the "plan" that you dont understand, but god could create something to improve our standars of living, while keeping our free will and forced  gift thing in check. seems hard, but gods all powerful, so he could just do that. why not? '''He already gave us the gift of life. And if He just stepped in and made everything hunky dory, what would be the point of Heaven or Hell? In a perfect world, free will straight up wouldn't exist, since humans aren't perfect and we'd abuse it otherwise. I think it's perfectly fair for Him to let us deal with our own problems, especially since it gives us an opportunity to ask for help. Not just from other people (although that may be part of it), but ask God Himself. Suffering allows people to bond together, adversity brings out the best and the worst in people.'''

'''the gift of life? i dont think so. wat about people ina frica with little water? life isnt such a gift for them huh? or the people that die at birth? is life really a gift? if everything was prfect, there would be no need for hell, so it would be ideal? and im not saying perfect, im just saying better! and sure, it seems logical that humans would screw up the good world, but god is all powerful, so he could FIND A WAY!!! and asking for help, really? how about africans that dont even know that christian god exists, they cantjust ask for help. and dont you dare say suffering is good. its not a necessary evil, if theres a omnipotent being around.'''

without god, ignoring him out of the equation, do you think its fair for someone to have a place where youre burning for eternity, or at least suffering? is that fair to you, that anyone should he held to such harsh conditions they cant escape, just because they dont accept jesus? '''You can't ignore God; He's in everything. And anyone in Hell is there because of their own choice, how many times must I say it? You harp on and on about how "unfair" it is, but it's actually totally fair. Jesus won't force you into Heaven, that's a choice. If you choose not to take the path into Heaven, that's your own fault. But so many people don't want to take responsibility for their choices, so they blame God instead for being "unfair".'''

'''im saying, in this scenario, just think if its fair to have a torture chamber. you CANT answer  just yes or no, and no god bs? i get that most people in hell arent the best people, but do they really deserve to be burning in eternity? it is logical to blame god. imagine burning in pain FOREVER. NONSTOP. with no hopes. all because you said "no" to jesus.'''

and yes, people do get scared into believing, and as a "99 athiest",not a "100 athiest" it can scare people also. pascals wager! im not saying those people are smart or dumb, but you have to know people do get scared into believing, and i am considering it, as i said. '''That's ruling by fear, which isn't how God works. He loves us. He is our Father. A true father who loves his child would rule by loving him, not by terrifying him into submission.'''

'''well, if ANYONE, no matter how illogical, believes in you out of fear, you KNOW theres something wrong. so you just said "no one is scared of god" well, youre wrong. yeah, some people change their whole religion out of fear, to follow god. does it really seem logical.'''

so which sems likely? some being that breaks laws of physics createad thousands of years ago by man using a book when people still thought that "blood letting" was a good idea and had no understanding of science? or a more logical, recent viewpoint  that includes science and things we have more proof of? '''Why should the two be opposing choices? God can break physics because He's not confined by them; He's on a totally different level. That doesn't mean a scientific viewpoint is wrong - heck, I believe science SUPPORTS God, since everything had to come from somewhere. I'm willing to believe the Big Bang happened as God's "Let there be light", since those very laws of physics themselves state you cannot make matter out of nothing. Therefore, the only explanation for the Big Bang is that whatever made it must have been able to TRANSCEND those laws.''' ok, the laws of physics argument is going in circles, just forget about that. and science does not support god because NOTHING can, for example, travel faster then light. it doesnt matter how powerful said thing is, if something did break light speed, which god could certainly do, it would shatter many of out proofs BASED on the speed of light being the max speed ever. and no, that is NOT what the big bang is, its not just matter being created. well, some theories say that, but many are either parallel universes, entropy changes, or constant rebirth/death via heat death. sure, sounds confusing, but you also seem confused about your very own daddy god, so you cant go insult me for that! religions of all type were created when people were banging stones together and saying "me like fire" whereas athiesm is parallel with the rising of science, more intelligent viewpoints., and a rising percent of population.

also there are a few more things i want to mention: 1. being touched by god. how do you know it was the christian god, why couldnt it be some other omnipotent being. you have no more evidence saying it was the christian god than something else. 2. sin consequences: all sins are one and the same? thats bs! swearing once is the same as creating a holocaust? really god? and dont go saying "oh well... its just part of some plan" as an excuse for this illogical viewpoint of god. 3. paradoxes. god creates a man that can always detect lies. then, a man that can always get away with lying. they both meet, and the second one tells a lie.. what happens. see, it..... is unexplainable. also, could you please explain the stone lifting paradox? i dont get what youre saying. 4. proof: nope! those scientists were actually INTERESTED in christianity, not trying to disprove it. thats why they became christian. and, i dont know for sure, but i think that other religions have the similar caliber proof as you. athiesm is simply thinking theres not enough proof, and theres more proof for the scientific side of the story. theres simply not enough! 5. bible lining up: can you please explain "bible lining up after thousands of years?" i dont really get what that means. 6. god backstory: if god made everything, what the hell created god? he creatd himself? hee created time and space as we know it? how? why? did god find out about this power, was it given to him, or did he make it? this is more of interest rather than arguing. 7. is god good?: you say god is good because you trust him, but that is simply not enough .anything with infinite power, which could easily be abused, with a firey pit of hell, that thinks swearing and being hitler are the same thing, which breaks the laws of physics he created, does not help AT LEAST A LITTLE people are suffering every day, has not openly came out and said "dont worry guys, all this shit going on is for the long term, better", so it seems like hes ok with this world going to shit, etc. god isnt evil, because otherwise we would all be in hell no matter what we do, bit he certainly isnt that loving. you might be thinkin, well why are you trying to prove that god is not good, rather than if he exists in the first place? well im simply pointing out the flaws of god. if there are a ton of flaws, it makes it less logical and therefore less likely to exist.

sorry for insulting god by the way. i dont wanna be rude. I forgive you.