Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20180228113931/@comment-31680260-20180310220640

Spoon King Gus wrote: Other tp's only have reason to visit when they don't know there's a Crusader. the Double Crusader thing is one scenario. If they know there's a Crusader, that means the Crusader is revealed, which means they're dead. "Sheriff" hush. ;-; Heil English!

"Bussing strategies exist - and as you said other TP's" I'll get to this at a later quote. I'll destroy it when I see it :)

Crusader's existance doesn't ONLY deter town. Roles like Framer, Blackmailer, and Disguiser are also just as detered from Crusader's existance. This can be very useful for town, as they don't have many other ways of directly removing these roles, other than finding and hanging them. '''But it doesn't deter the Godfather. And if the target's dead, then there's no NEED for a Framer or Blackmailer or Disguiser.'''

"So this role essentially punishes risk-taking no matter what." Again, look at Veteran. '''At least Veteran kills EVERY visitor. It's still a risk, but if you do it right, you're guaranteed a reward. Crusader has no guarantee - it's luck-based.'''

It doesn't punish risk taking, it creates a risk in the first place for not just the killing roles. '''Veteran kills all visitors, meaning it's not luck-based like Crusader. Next.'''

The idea of what's "Fun" GREATLY differs between people. Do you consider Spy a fun role? Or Framer? Or Disguiser? How "Fun" a role is doesn't make it a better role. I greatly enjoy playing Crusader, but again, that's my opinion, which is far from law, and doesn't make the role any better or worse. '''Find someone who legitimately has fun playing Crusader. Then find a Town that has fun when half of their deaths come from that Crusader. Still think the role should be in the game?'''

I won't argue that ToS is skill based, but it's undeniable that in every "dream" scenario, something you don't controll happens. Examples include, killing 2 maf night one as a vet, ​​​​​​Mauling 4 people as a Werewolf and surviving, Cleaning 3 easilly-claimable roles as Janitor, finding all evils as TI, finding a doctor as BG, ect. All of these have some element that the player can't control, and, while Rng SHOULDN'T have to be considered in a dream scenario, it's impossible not to as the player can get ruined by it so easily. '''Except all your examples were results of choices made by PLAYERS, not RNG. '''

This claim was a mistake, as I originally intended to mention 2 Ambushers, but didn't realize it was a Unique role at first. and it shouldn't take TWO crusaders to be worse than ONE ambusher. '''One Crusader is still worse than one Ambusher, since Crus will likely take at least one townie down with it. That's still a quarter of the Town, no matter how you spin it.'''

Again, so does vet, but that doesn't make Veteran a bad role. It's just a role the player has to think before they act with, as with crusader. '''As I have said, Veteran kills ALL visitors. Therefore, if the SK and the Escort and the Invest all visit, the Vet will kill the SK as well - Crusader will likely just kill a townie. '''

Gotta go to church now, will destroy the rest when I get back :D