Board Thread:Role Ideas (Rework)/@comment-205.237.153.138-20191004175211/@comment-205.237.153.138-20191009154544

DragonClaw66 wrote: 205.237.153.138 wrote: Serial Killer and Arsonist:

they can both win together because they are both insane and if 2 sk's or 2 arso's can win together than it makes sense that sk and arso can work together. this doesn't do much but it gives sk and arso a decently well needed buff

'''This changes absolutely nothing in ranked. Additionally, Neutral Killings being able to win together would be extremely powerful in chaos gamemodes. The roles themselves should be addressed, not the win conditions.'''

ok, how about this: arsonist can instead have a better claim space, there isn't much you can do for arso without them either A, being useless or B, op, i tried to give him the possibility of winning with someone else to make him slightly but not too powerful

Retributionist:

you can no longer talk or vote from being too tired from using your power, and the revived can't be whispered to/whisper. another idea is that the ret will be roleblocked if crusader and lookout visit them(this allows cl and consort to stop ret due to crus and lo not wanting to stop the revival) (if the revided person dies 3 2 or however many days later than it doesn't do much because the extra vote and confirms that he can do only needs to be done that day and night. and ret not being able to revive drastically reduces the chance that ret will wait to revive someone for a good unique role and gets rid of a lot of reward in the rets risk/reward setup. and the idea for making ret wait an extra night doesn't stop tp protecting ret without ret being too up)

'''Vote-restriction shouldn't even exist in the game (I'm not to big a fan of the Guardian Angel). Restricting speech should be exclusive to the Blackmailer. Preventing whispers to and from the revived target is an excellent idea. Inducing a role block when visited by non-role blocking roles makes no sense.'''

The ret not being able to talk is kinda useless if the revived can't be talked to so i understand that, i wanted to make it so that crusader and lookout stop the revive so that they weren't as easily protected.

Psychic:

this is a role that many complain about for being too "OP" here's how you counter it, claim Psychic, it is by far the easiest claim so how about the nerf for this one is that it is put into a very heavy evil invest result so evils can easily claim it.

'''It's true that many people complain about it being overpowered (because it is), but people also want it changed because the role is entirely based on RNG. It should be overhauled completely.'''

I agree completely, but this is the best solution without reworking him completely or removing him

Pirate:

can talk to who he pirates, this doesn't do much but it can increase the mind games while also being fun too

'''The Pirate is basically rock-paper-scissors as a role. No opinion on what should happen here.'''

But he's still fun.

Werewolf:

can win with vampires, mythical beasts of man need to stick together right?

No, same reason as the Serial Killer/Arsonist interaction.

understandable, but i thought that ww needed a bit of a buff, so how about instead ww, i dunno honestly same thing as arso, i couldn't find a middleground so i thought that having allies you couldn't see would at least slightly help

vampires: if a ww is in the game than they can only have a max of 3 members.

Read above.

vampire hunter:

if visited by 3 or more vampires he will be converted, the first one he kills the second one pins him down and the third one takes a bite

'''I'm assuming "pinning" means role blocking. IMO, the Vampire Hunter and Vampire need larger changes than what you have proposed. They should always spawn together, the Vampire Hunter should be unique, etc.'''

Understandable, i just felt like if vh reveals himself as vh and the evils aren't stupid vamps are screwed over.

Hex master:

when they get the necronomicon they don't deal a basic attack

No opinion.

Veteran:

who he kills will be cleaned (ground to dust sounds nice)

The Veteran is the weakest of the three main Town Killing roles, it doesn't need a nerf.

medusa:

who they kill will be cleaned and the murder will look like a veterans (ground to dust like vets)

'''I don't see why the two should share a death message. Either each role should have a unique one or they should be hidden (I opt for the former).'''

that was the idea they just hide the will(maybe not role) so that medusa can claim vet

Mafioso:

will become Godfather if there are no mafia members besides him remaining

Implement Tactical Mafia instead.

disguiser and framer:

remove, nah just kidding ill try at least

...

Framer:

you get to chose what the person appears to be and you can chose a mafia member too, but you can only choose a mafia member 3 times

Increased interaction against the Investigator and Sheriff is okay, but it needs to counter the other four Town Investigatives as well.

hey at least now the framer would be useful.

Disguiser:

revert the changes, at least now it can be fun while being useless but that won't work so instead lets make it so, when you disguise as someone if that person dies they appear to be disguiser this allows 1 the disguiser who is dead to fool the town into thinking he was not a disguiser but the role he claims in his will

'''Target the same player as the Mafia Killing every night and the Retributionist can never revive a Town member. Outside of this interaction, the ability will be useless in most cases because of the dead player's will (unless the killed player was a Jester/Witch without their shield).'''

hmmm, maybe also make it so that disguiser will also be able to be revived from the ret.

Survivor:

anyone who visits you while you use a vest will be dealt a basic attack and receive the (ground to dust) death message like vet and medusa, and another idea is to make it so that town is punished if they lynch a survivor, this 1 gives evils a role to claim 2 makes survs less unfun to play and gives them a chance of not being shot down instantly.

'''Survivor is Neutral Benign, it isn't supposed to attack. If you don't want to die as a Survivor, stop claiming it.'''

Survivor is extremely boring, this is well known and complained about, this is a solution that i tried without completely changing him

Trapper:

if you have a trap that is on a dead person(via bg killing them arso killing them hex master killing them them visiting someone who got rampaged, etc etc) then if a necro visits the person they will die, same goes for the ret, it is a double edged sword.

Neither the Necromancer nor the Retributionist attacks the dead target, so this interaction makes no sense.

(correct me if im wrong, or if this used to be true) but doesn't he kill arsonist cl (without necro) and most other roles that don't really kills? but i can still agree, because this isn't likely to happen.

Necromancer:

can decide to use certain day abilities of the dead, examples: necro uses jailor on x, the necromancer jails them and can talk to them, but can't execute them, pirate can pirate them and if they win the duel it does count to their duel count however you decide what the pirate will use, mayor: the entirety of the coven are revealed to everyone and they each gets 2 votes, medium you can talk to the dead next night. necromancer will get the results from any investigative role, except with potion master and consig in which case they just get the investigative results, with the necronomicon the necromancer can use rotted corpses(they can use dead players again) the day abilities can only be used once no matter what, only one talk with the dead one jail and one coven reveal

I'd definitely like if the Necromancer was able to use more roles, but this doesn't work too well (the Mayor one, for example, is a gamethrower's goldmine.

i understand that one, but it also gives the coven a bunch of power, and plus necromancer can already gamethrow easily by throwing a town protective at who the coven will visit

Medium:

instead of an undead seance they can once a game show the dead chat to the entire town, however if they use this they can no longer talk vote have a will or talk to the dead at night, this can't be used if the med is dead.

'''The Medium is already a strong role, especially if there is more than one. This change would grant it even more confirmability, which it doesn't need (but it also prevents voting and talking, which would counter it somewhat but would probably make the role extremely unfun as well).'''

Juggernaut:

WILL KILL THE PESTILENCE IF THEY ATTACK THEM WHILE FULLY UPGRADED, jugg attacks every odd night(to counteract ww)and also new and changed order of power ups 1st kill: basic defense 2nd kill: roleblock immunity 3rd kill: unstoppable rampage 4th: astral visits and they can now attack everyday from now on. i think this is powerful enough and makes him seem like a truly unstoppable force also i think there should be a special death message for when jugg and pest kill each other such as, (X) was killed last night, the immovable object had been toppled, (Y) was killed last night, the unstoppable force has been stopped

'''Pestilence's entire concept is that it cannot die at night. The upgrade change makes it an F- tier role because it has a 0.5 KPN for most of the game.'''

true, maybe make it the 3rd or 2nd kill he gets the everynight kills, however the entire concept of jugg is that he is an unstoppable force so they should both counteract each other and kill each other.

Ambusher:

no longer shows everyone that he is the ambusher and instead simply runs away if he is outnumbered(2 or more people visit the ambush) or out gunned (person has basic defense or higher)

'''I despise the Ambusher simply because I think the Mafia should only have 1 KPN (I think it should be a Coven role [after changing the name]). I like this change.'''

thanks

Coven leader:

if there are no other coven members in the game then there can be witches and if someone would get coven leader they would instead get whitch, and a coven leader with necronomicon no longer kills the target however if there is just one person without rampage or a protect ability(such as they are bodyguard or they have a trap on them) then the cl instantly wins

'''I feel that Witches should be able to spawn as a Neutral Evil role even with the Coven in the game. Removing the Coven Leader's ability to kill prevents it from eliminating opponents when it doesn't have majority.'''

thanks

whitch:

can get the necronomicon and gets the same things as the cl, but they lose the temporary defense

No, Neutral Evils are not supposed to kill directly (the Jester, IMO, should get a different ability upon being lynched).

no i understand, in fact i wanted to add the change to cls necronomicon ability to where, who they witch is no longer informed that they have been witched, and i believe that balances things

Sheriff: Will now find find pest(not pb) arso(unless they clean themselves) a vampire (if they have 3 or more vamps) and jester as suspicious to make him less completely useless

'''Fine with it finding Pestilence, not fine with it finding Arsonist (its concept is that it is stealthy but slow), no opinion on it finding Vampires, not fine with it finding Jester (the Jester is supposed to make themselves look evil). If you really think that the Sheriff is bad, then you're just bad at the role. In games with the least amount of detectable evildoers, it can still discover 3 suspicious roles. Scumread properly, and you can carry the Town. The only reason the Sheriff is considered "bad" is because the other Town Investigatives are either overtuned or overpowered. The Spy and Psychic are overpowered because of their abilities, the Lookout is overpowered because no other role can see visits reliably (add the Osservatore), and the Investigator is overtuned because the results are too restrictive. The Sheriff and Tracker are balanced.'''

here are the roles he can find: mafia, coven without necronomicon and sk, oh yeah and ww on odd nights, mafia: i was framed or he is exe or hexed or yada yada, you get the point it's easy to be seen as suspicious and also get away with it, the arso one is more because i thought of it like hex master or framer where whoever they douse also appears as suspicious.

Transporter:

any investigative or deceptive role will be informed their target was transported. It would work like this, You have decided to frame (y), you tried to frame (y), but they had been exchanged with (Z)! this prevents the Transporter from being annoying to both deceptive and investigative roles

The Transporter is already extremely strong because of its instant confirmability, and you want to add more?

add that who is transported doesn't know they are and boom, good change, or maybe not.

Vigilante:

after firing 2 shots if you hit a townie on the third shot you won't kill yourself because you have no more bullets, and if you fire all shots without killing any town you will turn into a veteran with no bullets and the town will get a notification saying (Z) has won on his war on crime and has become a veteran! this does next to nothing but it gives personal reward for doing good like, yes i do deserve all these medals I've made for myself

'''​​​​​​​Vigilante should have two bullets and just lose the bullets if they shoot a Town member. It reduces the swing in games.'''

but, do you agree with vig becoming vet with no alerts, again it does nothing but it feels good.

and that's it for now give me your opinions on these and i might be able to find the best way to buff and nerf some roles