Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20180228113931/@comment-31680260-20180309062258

Addfire wrote: Jallybwan wrote: Y'ALL ALREADY KNOW WHAT TEAM I'M ON Yes, they 'could'. But that's also unlikely- it's a 66% chance that Crusader would kill one of the baddies. Yeah, RNG sucks, but your example was sucky-er. '''Sucky-er than RNG, in a game that should be based entirely on skill? You sure about that? Also, that argument was pointless, since my point was just an example.'''

Still, you haven't differentiated it from a randoming vigilante. There is no difference so far. '''There is. The difference is that, even when the Crusader ISN'T randomly protecting, it can still kill a teammate. Vigilante needs a buff anyway.'''

STILL NO DIFFERENT FROM VIGILANTE IT IS AND I JUST PROVED IT ABOVE

And the Ambusher is a waste of a Mafia Killing slot. Ambusher is still worse. '''Crusader is a waste of a TP slot. While I understand that one TP isn't 25% of the Town, there are two other things that make Crusader worse. One, TP is IMPORTANT. Doctors and Bodyguards are often high-priority targets for the Retributionist. I don't fully understand Trapper, but at least it has Powerful attack, and it doesn't kill any townies except Vig and VH (only if the target is Vamp). Two, it can also take up RT slots as well. And that's a problem, because when it happens, even specifically asking for a Crusader (and warning off other Townies) will just end up with two dead Crusaders who've killed each other. There are three RT slots in a game of Coven Ranked, so worst-case scenario, we're looking at HALF the Town being a worse-than-useless role.'''

5. It's a negative utility. In every game I've been in, Crusaders have only killed three evils - two of which were myself. I've been in many Crusader games, and 90% of the time I see a Crusader kill someone, it turns out to be the Sheriff or the Escort - or two Crusaders have killed each other. That's basically like a Mayor lynching one townie a day - which is gamethrowing - only the Crusader can't help how horrifyingly bad it is.

Don't balance off of personal experience. If it's been said once it's been said 1,000 times. '''Why should personal experience be invalid? How do we gather data to update this wiki, Add? That's right - we test, we enter games. We PLAY. That's personal experience. Sarysa in particular has updated many pages based on his own experience, and you wouldn't have a problem with them.''' You use coulda-woulda-shoulda while still not differentiating it from a randoming vigilante. Sure, there's some flowery language, kudos for that, but still nothing that proves your point. '''You know, Add, there's a reason I shoot or execute people who say "there's no proof he's evil" when there clearly is. I have put proof up. And it is very different from a randoming Vigilante - just because you don't see the proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist.'''