Thread:Orecreeper/@comment-27398195-20180723195224/@comment-34403911-20180728050334

WhHAWAIIANpikachu wrote: Yes but ret and has a one time powerful ability, and med has a passive ability at nightime. Amne will have a fun ability soon if they are lucky and/or they are good

While Ret is fair enough, medium's passive ability is really boring as either the dead leave or they hardly give information, while it gets powerful against janitor and forger, that's basically only 2 roles.

'''Medium can give lots of info if the others didn't write wills. It also can be pretty easily confirmed if there is another med. Dont forget about medusa.'''

True, but they can, and that's what matters. For example, if a mafia claims vig and so does the vig, at day time proes will just let them "shoot it out" by night, and you trade a maf for a vig.

Or two vigilantes will die if they shoot it out, or only vigilante, or one will turn out to be a veteran.

I don't understand why the vet would claim vig then...

'''And this is only if 2 are claiming for one possible spot. vigs can also shoot jester claims.'''

So you're saying that it's supposed to not have survivor? Or that survivor should be changed in order to make the game right?

I mean before we work on survivor we need to work on other garbage roles like ambusher, medium, crusader...

Wait wait wait wait a second here, so you're agreeing that we should work on survivor?

BTW I am actually trying to fix crusader ( but I think it's pretty bad)

Yes, but if you like that strategy in the first place then why are you arguing against the change that will allow it to be manditorily fun?

Then why does ambusher exist?

Please explain what this means, what I meant by the before comment was that since if you already like doing it that way wouldn't it be better to actually require that to happen to win?

I mean not to be condescending but this is sort of like a straight-A student arguing that teachers should be easier on D students, while the D students are enemies of the A student as well (well, we are just debating for fun right?)

That's how it works at my school (kinda)

'''Well I guess the analogy wasn't that good but sure! '''

And yes, you gave the exact same argument as me, saying that how sk could win via kingmaking if they played well. My argument was that if they didn't play well enough and didn't reach a kingmaker then it's up to the survivor, or just who would win via stalemate. Why does the survivor have to pick the better player? Just because you doesn't mean a lot of survs don't. For example, if someone entrusts a whole group with plenty of exploitable information, and you don't exploit it, it doesn't mean that it won't be by others. Although you know it won't matter and it might be fun, others are not as moral. Btw I try to be as fair as possible every time. I usually vote against the person who has a way higher win chance, unless someone has been really pro (vet carry) or RAINBOW mode where I will vote with town

Jugg>Pest>Arso/WW>NK>Coven/maf>Town

If we have the same thoughts about it why are we arguing about this.

'''The initial point was that kingmaking should be automated, but you countered that with how sometimes the town deserves the win for example in rainbow mode. I then countered with how if the higher winrate faction was good, they wouldn't be in the situation in the first place, and thus the lower winrate should win automatically. This was basically the same argument you made to me on how if the lower winrate was better kingmaking wouldn't be a problem. '''

'''What I will say is that although we are like this, not all people are. Once too many a survivor has been a fucking retard and killed the hardworking arso. No offense, although in a perfect world it would work, this is far from a perfect world. Not everyone will do as you do, and to make it fair we should change it.'''

What's the difference? Do you mean they are way too op? Well yes I guess jailor needs a nerf as well but we're sorta trailing from the main point now. The point before was that you said how Town Support and Town Protective were uneeded as they did not contribute to the objective of the town while they clearly do, and are interesting without doing anything harder.

exploitable meaning that you can easily ignore the effects of a TP, TPs are useless if they don't do any work. Town supports on the other hand are generally just votes and are rarely useful for other reasons.

'''How exactly are you going to exploit the doctor spam healing a jailor? I think you're exaggeratting quite a bit here saying that town support doesn't do anything but votes'''

Yes so you'res saying that if a surv is being a dick, and there is at least 1 vamp, there is reason to check them every now and then? Because if you say no, that's the contrapositive to your most recent statement, which means they're logically equivalent.

The problem is if you can confirm there is another vampire to turn the survivor into a vampire, and then it becomes an internal "Wine in front of me" situation.

IDK what you mean