Board Thread:Role Ideas (Rework)/@comment-28112409-20190324041252/@comment-28112409-20190324072717

I knew the mug of my shoe up your ass would come in handy.

The medium comment I do not get, and I don't think you get either. Ret already made medium futile for years now in any game where both of them are present. You revive someone and they bring all the information from the TIs and cleaned individuals with them as early as day 3, just like medium talks with them everyday for said information and tells it to the town or writes it down on a will as early as day 3. If I moved the dead information to lump it with the rez, then all the ret would do is spam tempo rez whatever townies he can get his hands on or tunnel vision into the perma rez rather than considering information as a factor.

An easier way of looking at is that just because someone does something partly, doesn't mean they do it completely or as effectively as the one that completely focuses on that field. Compare the potion master and the consigliere for example. The PM can reveal exact roles, but the reason she isn't used as a consig is because she has two other options to consider that can be just as important to the game with even the nerconomicon emphasizing the PM to kill. Ultimately, the consig will be better at information collection because that's the only thing he does. The same thing here applies with ret and med. When you have options like letting dead townies do actions, openly confirm yourself, and get an extra vote for the town, you won't be focusing on talking to the dead all that much unless it really is that important, in which case you end up sacrificing the other options for it regardless and it balances out.

The complaint is about as valid as saying that jailor makes vigilante completely useless, which is absolute horseshit.

You've also completely misinterpreted what the term "self-confirmation" means. I'm trying to avoid the ret self-confirming using his rez with little to no risk and having it strongly tilt the favor to the town, I'm not trying to avoid scenarios where 2 townies confirm each other since those have existed since the dawn of ToS. Current ret with a medium still confirm each other. 2 mediums still confirm each other. I don't see why this is a problem when it has already existed and when it plays such a miniscule role in regard to why retribrokenist is broken.

Freaking out like an elementary schooler over tempo resurrections is not very insightful as to how it makes ret the most powerful thing in the game by the way. Honestly, I think you just skipped the first part of me explaining the rework, hence why you have not the slightest clue why I'm suggesting what I'm suggesting.

To reiterate, the current ret already confirms himself with the rez among other things. I want to split all the benefits of the single rez into multiple things that occur over multiple nights or the whole game rather than just nutbusting it in a single use of an ability. Self confirming is one of the things the rez does, so I'm using it as a barrier between the ret going for the perma rez or going for tempo rez. A mechanic of risk vs reward, go big or go home or die trying, something along those lines.

So to articulate it using the language skill level of an elementary schooler.

Confirm with other stuff, bad bad, no

OP bad, no

Confirm with other stuff OP, so therefore double bad, double no

I change OP to balanced, yes?

Confirm alone, better, yes?

Add risk, balance ret, better, yes?

Yes?

Yes.

If English doesn't work, do know I can't speak monkey and I might just give up explaining the concept to you.

I don't get why tempo resurrections freak you out anyway. Current ret can revive someone on D3 where they can do their job for the rest of the game until they die in addition to voting and whispering claims, or buys every single townie an extra night for their night abilities at the worst, and you're telling me tempo rez makes him the most overpowered? Makes less than no sense.

I think you had a brain fart or a severe malfunction when you said "It's not. As aforementioned, once the Retributionist resuurects a dead Townie, they're autoconfirmed and their information is autoconfirmed."

Their dead townie rez is on the 4th stage. If a townie first dies on N1 and you start doing the sequences actions from D2, the rez will happen on N5/D6 at the earliest and the self-confirming stage before it happens at N4 at the earliest. Were you even paying attention? I even wrote it right there, to the left of the start of your comment, you can see it right there, RIGHT THERE. Your criticism was something I literally addressed and used as a point regarding why the mechanic is beneficial to the role, so you said the exact same thing and only added "it's actually not balanced." You fokin wot m8?

N4 is a pretty late point in the game mind you. It is enough time for the evils to kill a good deal of said TPs/LOs, and it forks the protectives/LO too because they have to decide between the ret giving the extra vote or the jailor. It creates a hole the evils can exploit, and is even a terrible idea if all TPs/LOs were dead because the ret cannot tempo rez and reveal in the same night. Implying there even is an LO, who usually reveals on D2 with jailor meta and gives the evils time to target him.

If the townies aren't all that much dead, the rez itself becomes irrelevant and unimportant because the town is already winning, so it's just pointless snowballing. I've been trying to give the rez and the self confirming of the ret as least importance/value as possible for like this whole rework, in case you haven't noticed yet.

I digress, removing the self confirmation stage and just making it a buffer the ret has to spend a night on sounds reasonable enough, but I'll wait for further opinions.

They're unkillable and don't count for killing so that the players don't have to sit through a whole extra night and day for the game to end because the stalemate detector won't go off and the evils have to kill him too. It doesn't matter whether the ghost is killable or not, might as well speed up the game's pacing.

As for your final words, ret already does medium's job in his current state to a degree. I don't see in any capacity or form how him talking to a single dead member at least once suddenly constitutes medium being absolutely useless especially considering what I've said regarding the other options ret has. Haven't seen any rotten player saying ret made med useless for the past few years, why suddenly complain about it now?

Again, unkillable and doesn't need to be killed for the win to speed up the game's pace. Shaving 1 day's time from all games with a ghost and evils winning is gonna be a quality of life change.

Didn't you just complain about tempo rezzes being powerful a few paragraphs ago? Why are you suggesting a buff then? Also, you can already claim ret the way it currently is. The tempo rez doesn't prove ret, it's the reveal at the 3rd stage that does that or the perma rez of the townie if you were to remove the 3rd stage :/