Board Thread:General Ideas/@comment-27128035-20190813051443/@comment-27128035-20190816043458

GamesManiac wrote: What a legendary post that sums up every issue in ToS XD

Removing Retri seems to be the most viable option because of the inherent issue in its role concept. Otherwise, I think moving it to Town Power would be nice, but if that's the case, it is not on par with Jailor & Mayor in terms of mechanic healthiness. Probably some tweaks like having unlimited resurrection with very condition to fulfill could be another way of doing it.

I partially support removing transport notification. It is nice for long-term impact, like for higher ELO or experienced player, but for lower tier players, it can be very destructive if not properly played considering how superior transporting mechanic is (with highest priority & mess up all the flow). Indeed, it is the matter of time, but things can be very inconsistent in the meantime. And, hypnotist can be in trouble as transporting is the most famous and useful choice to go.

For Framer rework, I think hard-countering all TI can be a little efficient than just manipulating vision of role. It gives a little flexibility, but eventually its target pool still remained for Sheriff & Inves.

I think... If I were to rework Disguiser, I would choose to discourage "die to be useful", because the value of a Mafia member is far more worthy than a Town. A Mafia worths 2.25 point in ratio to 1 point per Town. I would be like adding more interaction with TI for the disguising mechanic. I would make the disguise an overall makeover instead of copying the target's role. For example: Sun Icon to disguise, but selection night at night does nothing but simply visiting. Disguiser selects Skitty (Inves). Sheriff sees Disg as Inno. Inves sees Disg as Inves. LO/Tracker sees Disg visit as Skitty's visit. Spy can't see Disg visit. Psy still see Disg as evil. '''Yeah, I agree with you on this. TBH, I don't really like the concept of the Disg, it doesn't aid the Mafia in any way except itself. I would remove Disg if possible (which isn't realistic), or completely rework it. I don't think the rework you provided is the why to fix it though, it just makes Disg into role that has buffed Godfather investigation immunity, which doesn't provide the Mafia with any advantage besides the one for itself. Now that I think about it, Disguiser should probably have an added ability that allows them to select their Mafia pals to hide them from investigations. Yeah, i like that idea.'''

I support the rework idea for Forger, but 1 use is a bit... If we make it able to forge will 3 times, but only forge role 1 time? And... make Janitor can't see the original last will in exchange? '''Forger is already kinda boring in the current meta, I thought this to be a better change. I personally think Janitor is fine the way it is actually.'''

Feeling dubious abt the Witch change.''' Alright. I've briefly read over some other opinions and I'll address those in a second, while considering them as well.'''

I think current Jest doesn't really fit in the position of NE. It is potentially a kingmaker in a lot of scenario, and can backfire evil themselves. I would move it to NB if possible. If it is to remain in NE, I'll change its goal to "Get yourself lynched and haunt a Town", or simply make it a silver bullet haunt that can't hit evil with all chance. '''Eh, ToS defines Neutral Evil in a different way than SC2 Mafia does. I do think that Jester could trend into that area of NB. I looked at the other suggestions and I liked the penalty of no lynching the following day.'''

Exe is another candidate of kingmaker. I'll change its goal to "Lynch your target and see Town lose". I think I support the addition of framing ability. '''Reason for its Kingmaker situation is that it keeps its death immunity. I would remove it's one time death immunity after victory.'''

About the winrate things.... I'm more concern with Neutral's. Ideally for me, I think ratio of Town:Mafia/Coven:Neutral is nice at 2:2:1. Much more of a subjective matter :P '''I think you should compare them in percentages. For Town, it should be 45%. For Mafia, it should be around 40%. For Neutral Killing, it should be around 15%. For most neutrals, a 30-60% win rate would be reasonable, though I think it should be more around 40%. ​​​​​'''