Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27398195-20200121233049/@comment-205.237.153.138-20200122193139

Pokechurin wrote: S Tier: Godfather (self-explanatory)

Agree but there should be others here

A Tier: Janitor (It's a role with few counters that generally is effective in disorienting the town. one or two cleans can make a large difference)

Agree on janitor but there should be others

B Tier: Consig (gathers information effectively), Bmer (can either act as disruption or deception), Consort (disruption), Ambusher (potential kill), Mafioso (backup), Hypnotist (requires tons of information to be effective, but very versatile)

'''Consig deserves to be A at least, it's knowledge allows it to be deceptive ALL BY ITSELF in fact there have been many times where the consig has practically ran the town. Bmer  is good and nice and should be in A tier, no higher and no lower. We don't need mafioso to be roleable in a game is all I'm saying'''

C Tier: Disguiser (deception but ineffective), Forger (wipes wills, but bad)

agree on disguiser, Forger in all of my games, in all of my years playing tos has never been that useful ONCE

F Tier: Framer (extremely situational and ineffective ability)

'''But we arn't just doing this based on the abilities are we? you see the framer has the objectively worst ability in the game, but it has the best RESULTS in the game, as framer you can practically claim anything and be believed, oh what's that investigated well actually i was framed, sheriff says sus, guess what, either he's an exe or framed. The only reason why i think framer is slightly good, is because of it's surviveabillity. If someone investigates the godfather unless it's early game IT'S OVER, he has no good claims and will be lynched. Mafioso can only claim vig, and if he doesn't kill as "vig" the next day you betcha he get's lynched, consig has a great invest claim so we'll jump over them. Consort, yeah they have escort claim but why would they be roleblocking important roles? hypnotist is EXTREMELY variable so we'll skip over him. Disguiser, to get actual use out of this role you HAVE TO DIE. Forger, ahahhahah yeah no good luck. Janitor, if you claim medium you'll have to give away your very own god damn information and even if you try to decieve them if there's another medium or a ret your boned. '''

My point is that framer can have any reasonable claim because to the eyes of the investigator, he is always framed, and from that point you may decieve some people pretty good.

​​​​​​​I've had games where i was framer and lived till the very end because people thought i was jester, or framed, or hexed and then fooled the pants off them in the end, I've almost NEVER had a game where the forger did anything substancial.