Board Thread:Role Ideas (Neutral)/@comment-31680260-20170408232521/@comment-31680260-20170413085409

Alright - I've rethought the whole "hardcounters jailor" side. Make it so that he doesn't lose his executions - but it's still a waste that could be used on NK or Mafia. The role-dependency is still there, but here's a few things that might influence your decision:

- The "Making New Roles" page says that if you can break a rule and still make it balanced, go ahead. I personally think this is balanced (if Jailor doesn't lose his executions). The buddy-role is part of the concept, but most (decent) lists have Jailor anyway. In fact, we could make it so that there can be no Convict unless there is a Jailor. This reflects the whole "Vamp Hunter needs Vampires", and VH is considered neccessary if Vamps are around, otherwise they are too powerful. Same concept, but for Jailor.

- Town has the highest win rate, and Jailor is a powerful Town role. Convict would mean that Jailor doesn't neccesarily get screwed over by executing a Convict. All it means is that they waste an execution - and Convicts can still get shot by Vig or killed by Mafia/NK.

- I know that in-game roles bypass the rules of making new roles and suggestions are under intense scrutiny, but I'm not entirely convinced that's all-encompassing. The rules are obviously useful, and they should be adhered to as much as possible. But if a role is legitimately balanced, which I think Convict is, I personally believe they could be bent a little.

- Buddy roles require another role to WIN. If the Jailor dies, the Convict becomes a Survivor - who can win with anyone. In order to win as a CONVICT, yes, they need a Jailor. But it doesn't entirely deprive them from a win if Jailor dies.

- It indirectly helps NK's. Serial Killers, if jailed, are usually screwed even if Jailor doesn't exe them - if he has an up to date will then the SK will get lynched the following morning. If a Convict plays his cards right, he could get jailed - giving the NK an extra night. Serial Killer benefits the most, but WW gets a boost as well (they kill Jailor on full moons).

- As Hawaiian said, Vamp Hunter is a buddy role. But they have a similar alternative to the Convict - when all Vampires are dead, they become a Vigilante, so they aren't completely useless. As such, VH is considered a balanced role (even neccessary when Vamps are around).

I understand the whole "Buddy role? Rejected" mindset - in most situations it means you don't waste time on something silly. But in this case I think it could be waived a little.

Also, Felix, you're considered an expert-reviewer. Better than the anons that go on and reject everything with no explanation in any case, and probably better than me.

If you still reject it, I understand - but I urge you to reconsider. I will tweak the original post to encompass the new features discussed here for a better template.