Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20171002223259/@comment-26715110-20171004202827

Addfire wrote: FirePyre wrote: Playful Trickster 101 wrote: Team Mafia FTW Because even though Mafia can be detected easily like Coven, the Mafia's roles are much more balanced than the Coven. The Coven itself depends on Necronomicon too much, and some roles like Poisoner, Potion Master, and Medusa need to be played wisely if they haven't get the Necronomicon. The dependent on Necronomicon is the thing that makes me not fond of the Coven alignment.

You say that the Coven's roles are dependent on the Necronomicon, I say that you'd make that exact same argument against the mafia if they had their own version of the Necronomicon, even if the unbuffed roles were exactly the same as they are now.

''' But Mafia doesn't, and speculation is kinda pointless, isn't it? '''

''' Yes, but the point is, the argument about coven is dependent on Necromonicion is pointless and can be applied to Mafia if they had their own version, coven roles are already good without necromonicon. '''

'''The Necronomicon is an amazing and useful buff, yes, but the Coven roles are able to stand without it. Just becase they can be more more powerful, doesn't mean they aren't already more powerful.'''

''' They aren't, really. I don't think Coven has ever won a game before getting the necronomicon. '''

Yes, the coven don't usually win before getting the necromonicon, but thats only because it happens only because the necromonicon happens on night 3, not many games end on night 3 and Hex Master would be able to stand without Necromonicon and Poisoner too

'''And making the argument that the Coven need to be played wisely is a fair argument, but it applies to literally every role. There is no role in the entire game which is not more useful to it's team if it is played wisely and strategy is used. There is no role in the entire game that is more useful if not played wisely, and of all the roles you cannot argue that the Coven's roles are ones that are completely useless if played dumbly, because even if you're a retard the only way to mess up with that kind of power is to not use it.'''

 Yeah, you can't make the arguement of coven being bad because some players are bad at the game, but when playing mafia some players are also bad at the game, but since the worse people at the game are children, they probably wouldn't be able to jump into coven edition as older people   

As for the Mafia, the don't need some sort of buff like Necronomicon, and they can still rekt Town if the team is good, or the opposing side is just a stupid donkey. They can perform direct killings without need to wait for a cool down, they can deceive Town and turn them against each other, and you can even use the information you obtain to eliminate important roles of the Town.

'''They can perform direct killings without need for a cooldown, yes, but that makes them predictable in a way that the Coven is not, and predictability is only a good thing for your enemies. The Coven can deceive town and instigate paranoia, and with the Coven Leader the Coven have the ability to detect and eliminate important town members similarly to the mafia.'''

''' Predictable? Predictable ? If the mafia is anything, it is not predictable. Besides, with the spy nerf, Mafia is able to function so well as a shadow manipulator that I've had games where I was MVP as Disguiser. **Disguiser**! '''

Yes, the coven may be predictable too, but the coven is not just predictable, they are VERY stable, by the night you probably found the Hex Master, honey, they are so predictable that they are gonna hex you up (that sounds weird...) and the night you found Coven Leader, they are gonna witch the vig into another townie and get Coven Advantage, The coven is stable and does things quick, thats why its predictable, but the mafia is also predictable, how many times is there a disguised as werewolf prediction or a disguised as Jailor prediction a Forged will prediction and I don't need to say Janitor since its clear.

The best thing of the Mafia, unlike Coven roles, is that when no Mafia killing roles left, any random Mafia would be promoted to a Mafioso. This is a very useful asset unlike the Coven. So even when the Godfather and Mafioso died, the remaining Mafia can still turned the tables on.

'''But this removes the aspect you mentioned of the mafia being able to deceive town and turn them against each other or use information to detect and eliminate important town members. '''

''' It also keeps the town guessing on what the mafia has and when. In All Any, the assumption is always that Mafia have all five, even when they only have two or three. '''

Yes, but the town doesn't need to know that they once had a consigliere but the mafia is dead, its only curiosity, pointless curiosity.

'''And with the Necronomicon, when the Coven is in a bad spot they have just as much ability to turn the tables. Overall, this point makes no sense because you're acting like it only applies to mafia. Yes, only mafia have roles that can directly become killing roles, that they don't have guaranteed super-buffs coming their way.'''

''' BUT Coven doesn't have roles that can become immune at night, and Coven doesn't have the same level of secrecy. '''

No... I hope you have coven edition before making your argument, Coven Leader with Necromonicion makes them a Serial Killer for the coven, except they can still control, yup they have basic defense too when they have Necromonicon

So basically the reason why I chose Mafia over Coven is because I don't the dependance on Necronomicon too much, since only with it they can kill directly (e.g. Coven Leader and Poisoner, since Doctor or GA can easily thwarted the killing unless they have Necronomicon but AHHH.). The dependance on the Necronomicon is just too much and without it, Coven is basically useless.

'''Not true. But even if the Coven was dependent on the Necronomicon, they never have a game where they don't receive it, so it's not like this is necessarily a bad thing. There is no situation where they aren't going to get the Necronomicon.'''

''' What about when they get lynched d3? '''

Thats not making a point, thats just stating that the coven can have a very unlucky game, "luck" so lets not get angry at luck for coven, mafia can still be unlucky

Thanks for reading my opinion, have a great day!

Thanks!

''' Thanks! '''

Red Thanks

Can Coven win with three people? When it comes to whatever your three favorite Coven roles are, I doubt that they would win more than, say, a Godfather, Janitor, and Consigliere. What do you mean?