Board Thread:Role Ideas (Town)/@comment-40049963-20190706131138/@comment-30757827-20190707225248

-sounds good

-Your example with the doctor being unable to get through confused me, but yeah that makes sense.

-I know you intentionally made it so that town roles would get blocked, and i'm not asking for them not to get blocked and evils to get blocked, i think neither should get blocked, the role is unique enough on it's own, it's not fun to get your ability blocked, it buffs the role to have it, which it doesn't need, and it just makes the role more complicated.

-Time to do an entire review on neighbors...


 * Uniqueness: Sure it passes here i guess, but maybe there's a reason no roles have this mechanic?


 * Enjoyment: Chances are, you don't really care if a barricade is torn down, and it just clutters your screen. It doesn't add any new and interesting strategies or ideas. I read your new role, and in mechanics, you give some reasons to why it does add new and interesting strategies or ideas. "The meta may become to place one the person next to you, so you can self confirm as the 'neighbour'" Uhm, yes, why do you want to self confirm as a neighbor? what does that even mean? Everybody can see that you're their neighbor. Is it to make you seem trustworthy because you told the truth? Well lets get into something you said about that: "It gives unorthodox information people can use, such as scum reading people who should be saying it but they remain silent about it." Yes, uh, why would anyone, good or evil, stay silent about it? Maybe because it adds no new valuable information that the original one who was protected or the carpenter themselves already knew? Unfortunately, now eeeeeveryone is going to be obligated to say that they heard it or people will suspect them.  This decreases enjoyment.


 * Balance: It adds no nerfs or buffs to the balance of the role


 * Simplicity: As you can see above, the role doesn't really add anything balance wise or enjoyment wise, all it has going for it is being unique, but we're not adding random farts into the game just because it's "unique." All it does is add more stuff to memorize, which is not reccomended.


 * Verdict: Scrap. Neighbors hearing it being torn down is useless, as such it should be discarded.

-Alright an interesting change, let's review it again.

Uniqueness: Protecting someone 2 nights in a row with limited uses, and also with roleblocking all visitors. 'tis unique.

Enjoyment: Has the interesting property of not just predicting who's gonna die tonight, but also who's likely to die tomorrow. For the opposition, they have to predict who you protected the night before, so if recent events change anything, they can ignore that. Visiting a fortified player, good or bad, and having your ability blocked doesn't sound like fun.

Balance: Let's compare this to doctor for a sec, with doctor you get to predict every night who's gonna die. With this, you get to barricade multiple people, but only get to have the day's info to rely on for one of them, and can only do this 3 times. It would be beneficial to fortify the jailor, but also fortify the spy the next night while the jailor is still fortified, so you can protect the most important townies simultainiously. However, when you can only do this 3 times, it just feels a little weak. That is literally 4 nights that people are healed, which, to me, doesn't sound too nice, so i imagine many carpenters would instead not even heal multiple people at once and instead spread it out so that it lasts 6 nights. With this likely better strategy, it's the doctor, but they have to heal the same person twice, and they get 6 uses. That would be a nerfed doctor.

Simplicity: I've gone in depth into why neighbors hearing is a terrible idea, but roleblocking, let's take a look at that. The role is plenty unique without it, being roleblocked doesn't help with enjoyment, and it adds a little to balance, but i really think it feels too big to just help with balancing the role, which, by the way, it doesn't help very much in balancing, and i really don't like two-sided roles, because they should be two different roles, not one amalgamation. It would be so much more streamlined without that, as in my opinion, all roles should be simple. Serial killer kills. Doctor prevents it. Bodyguard trades their life to kill the attacker. Investigator narrows down the roles they could be. With this, it would be Carpenter protects someone for two nights straight, but they also roleblock all the visitors of the fortified target... It's just so two-sided, and i hate it. And if you still think you should keep it, here's a fun fact: in the wiki role creation rules, it specifically says not to have roles that roleblock all visitors, as it creates a paradox where A visits B and C roleblocked all visitors of B. This means A does not visit B. If they did not visit them, that means they are not roleblocked and can visit B. Now that they've visited B, they are roleblocked, which means they did not visi- you get the point.

'''Verdict: Revamp. '''Now, i know what you're thinking: "How the hell did i get a worse score??" and the answer is that i realised there's a better route than the previous. remove limits, yeah, you heard me right, remove limits so you can indefinetly barricade, but then add that risk factor you wanted again. I don't know what it is, hence why this is revamp and not tweak, but if you find a risk factor to go with it, i think that would be great. Here are some risk ideas though: Something bad happens if nobody attacks the fort? The person protected dies if _____? Something bad happens if too many people visit the fort? The carpenter dies if ____? idk, your role, do what you want with it.