Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20180228113931/@comment-34951699-20180310163318

"Except, like you said yourself. other crusaders (or other TP's in general)." Other tp's only have reason to visit when they don't know there's a Crusader. the Double Crusader thing is one scenario.

"Sheriff" hush. ;-;

"Bussing strategies exist - and as you said other TP's" I'll get to this at a later quote.

"Do you see what I mean, though? The very NOTION that a Crusader MIGHT exist is enough (by your own reckoning) to put a TP off protecting someone. That leaves the protected townie with the insecurity of evils as their only defense" Crusader's existance doesn't ONLY deter town. Roles like Framer, Blackmailer, and Disguiser are also just as detered from Crusader's existance. This can be very useful for town, as they don't have many other ways of directly removing these roles, other than finding and hanging them.

"So this role essentially punishes risk-taking no matter what." Again, look at Veteran.

It doesn't punish risk taking, it creates a risk in the first place for not just the killing roles.

"That's not fun. And as I've said many times over, ToS is a game, Games are played for fun." The idea of what's "Fun" GREATLY differs between people. Do you consider Spy a fun role? Or Framer? Or Disguiser? How "Fun" a role is doesn't make it a better role. I greatly enjoy playing Crusader, but again, that's my opinion, which is far from law, and doesn't make the role any better or worse.

"(Rng shouldn't have to be considered in a dream scenario - ToS is skill-based.)" I won't argue that ToS is skill based, but it's undeniable that in every "dream" scenario, something you don't controll happens. Examples include, killing 2 maf night one as a vet, Mauling 4 people as a Werewolf and surviving, Cleaning 3 easilly-claimable roles as Janitor, finding all evils as TI, finding a doctor as BG, ect. All of these have some element that the player can't control, and, while Rng SHOULDN'T have to be considered in a dream scenario, it's impossible not to as the player can get ruined by it so easily.

"Where the hell did you get that from?" This claim was a mistake, as I originally intended to mention 2 Ambushers, but didn't realize it was a Unique role at first. and it shouldn't take TWO crusaders to be worse than ONE ambusher.

"Crus has the potential - if not the LIKELIHOOD - to kill more than just one townie" Again, so does vet, but that doesn't make Veteran a bad role. It's just a role the player has to think before they act with, as with crusader.

"You can then bus the Ambusher" You can bus Any mafia role, Ambusher just does the least prior to their bus.

"Crusader is totally pointless compared to other TP's." Crusader is the ONLY TP that can kill roles such as, again, Blackmailer, Framer, or disguiser. Also, unlike bodyguard, they don't need a Doctor to make the double TP synergy work.

"They have the synergy of "I won't murder my teamates", which is more than I can say for Crus."

Again, this is assuming that Crusder will inevitably kill a townie. Yes, it is likely that they will kill a townie, but that doesn't mean that they don't synergize well with other townies (again, as I mentioned, TP roles.)

"I'm sorry what? They synergize with other townies by killing them at random? I don't understand this point here." Again, see above. This sounds like an argument from someone who is just salty about dying to Crusader a few times, rather than an actual thought-out decision. (and PLEASE don't take that as me saying your ENTIRE argument is like that, because it isn't. Some of your points are well thought out, and I'll give credit there where it's due.)

"Statistically, they're more likely to hit a townie than anything else at BEST. Once again, this is more than I can say for Crusader" Yeah, but the chances that you do hit a townie are lowered by you picking people that town knows would be an obvious crusader target.