Thread:Vertroyer/@comment-37421692-20190123010755/@comment-37421692-20190123231015

Vertroyer wrote: The point can be countered simply by the fact that intentions do not equate to the reality of the situation. I'm pretty sure the devs intended for their Ret to be balanced, but that's not the case now is it?

You can talk about what Forger was intended to be all you want but players have already figured out how to counter him. The current behavior within towns and the restricting conditions required for a forge's success make his unique use extremely rare and heavily dependent on his enemies.

Your example relies on the Town making mistakes. Why would an Investigator not post their will with their claim when a jailor is revealed or TIs are asked to come out D2? If a role depends on the enemy being stupid or performing errors, it's not a good role. Disguiser doesn't need the town to be stupid, he just needs to make his own claim good enough and his disguise will already work.

Your 3rd sentence is garbage. Look, I can do it too. Forger on the other hand is literally just a role that is supposed to "fool" the Town by screwing with wills. See, any dumbass can make that sort of sentence and pass it off as an argument. The consideration of will pasting and claim making within townies that accompanies the jailor meta only dips the Forger way deeper into the mudhole.

Calling the idea at its core stupid without substantial explanation or reasoning as to why that is the case seems unironically stupid in and of itself, and it's pretty hypocritical considering that Forger's concept did not even work out properly in the game and fizzled into a worse Janitor.

You say Disguiser has no way to be useful, and then you decide to contradict yourself literally right after that by saying it is only useful upon death. Pick one. You're also thinking Disguiser's ability is meant to be his main thing to do, even though it clearly isn't. The disguise is a backup plan, it always was. And mafia member can make a good claim if they're good enough.

You are essentially making it sound like Disguiser is just any other mafia role except that now their ability is a "back up plan". Oh, and it never works either. Sweet. Who the hell will ever get tricked by a Disguiser? No one. It literally just takes simple scumreading to figure out a Disguiser. Forger, while useless as shit, can actually sometimes be useful. If an Investigator doesn't have any important info, you can change their will to make another player be a susp result like "BG, GF, Arso" and if anyone thinks it's suspicious that the investigator didn't post their results, you can just argue that maybe they didn't want to out the possible Town Protective.