Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-28112409-20171018053338/@comment-30154040-20171022173606

Addfire wrote: DuckGamer123 wrote: Jallybwan wrote: Latest phuckin join ever - Team Bad!Let's not forget what ToS is in nature - a game. Games are played for fun, are they not? Therefore, while a game should indeed be balanced, it must first address the entertainment it provides. It's impossible to please everyone, but I think I speak for many people (as evidence by the 3v8 status here) when I say that as a community, the update wasn't very well-liked. If they were going to introduce this list at all, they should have at least made the old list an added gamemode.

Some people like the new list, and at the end of the day it's a matter of opinion. However, the update removes many roles from being in the game, and most of said roles are fun. Survivor offers the ultimate neutrality, it doesn't care who wins as long as it's left alone. Amnesiac is quite literally a wildcard, and it can swing the game in favour of one side or the other - so there's really no boredom there unless you die early on (which is true of almost any role). The Any slot, which is the only way Vampires could even exist, added a little more mystery, which befits ToS very well.

While this new list is supposed to be balanced, what it actually does is remove much of the claimspace for evils and add a crap-ton more Townies. The Any slot, whilst a hard claim to make, was at least a claim in the first place. Now evils can't even claim Survivor, which makes Witches perfectly phucked. If an Invest finds one of those Witches? Good game, Witch, since VH can't exist without Vampires either.

TL;DR, the new list just doesn't fit ToS as well as the old one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjhQhC2Dm8c&t=325s http://www.strawpoll.me/5439263/r

http://www.strawpoll.me/11301408/r

Second poll actually HAS vampires.

The second poll has vampires have one vote.

Same with vampire hunter.

So, removing those roles as a possibility helped the game, because a minority liked them and found them FUN. The same goes with Amnesiac and Survivor. But you can look at both polls if you want. Also, the state of the people on the DotW board doesn't really speak for everyone. Hell, you eight could be the only eight on the wiki who feel that way. To experience the old list, going to Custom is a possibility.

"Removes many of roles from the game(4), most of which were fun(check the polls). Also, removing claimspace? Really? Well, there are 3 random towns. 1 more townie slot. Also, how does it add more claimspace to DIFFERENT people? Also, removing survivor adds SKILL to witch, You just hope that the 1/14 chance does NOT happen, and then, after that, try to stay unsuspicious. Personally, in most of witch games, I won, and there was an investigator in most games. Also, in the previous list, if you were found as Survivor/Witch/Vampire Hunter, they'd lynch you anyways, because survivors are lynched a LOT.

TL;DR - Your claims about fun were just proven false by 2 polls. It might correlate all the way up to all players, it might not. Those are honestly the only two polls I could find. Just out of curiousity, who made those polls? Was it a dev, or...?

You're also cherrypicking information. This has a sample size of 100 people (way too small) and Mafioso, Disguiser, Sheriff, Escort, and Ret were all ranked lower than Vampire. And no one removed Retributionist from ranked. In this, Survivor and Amne did get a collective 11 votes out of 282 voters, yes, but Town Protective, Arsonist, Mafia Deception, and Werewolf ALL got less votes.

You say that going to custom is a possibility, but custom has its own host of problems, namely that not everyone wants to play old ranked. Custom is for custom.

TL;DR please provide all information. I didn't HAVE all information. I was searching, and these were the only two polls I could find. If you could find a poll, by all means, please do. Also, nobody has answered my question on how this enviroment is more extreme with 1 less town support and 2 more random town.