Board Thread:Role Ideas (Neutral)/@comment-26494712-20161127171212/@comment-26494712-20161220194906

FirePyre wrote: So, I have a bunch of problems with this role.

Firstly, I see no reason as to why we need this in the game. When Vertroyer asked you this question, you responded with a long tirade that ended in 'why not'.

A long tirade, only perceived by the reader, when expressly typed up by me, truly serves no hostile attitude, and was at essence, although I agree that it was quite exaggerated, a response to a vague question.

That answer is bullshit. Tell us what the purpose of this role is - why does it exist? Why do we need it in the game?

'''It exists for the same reason as all of the other roles. I don't see how much more I can elaborate on that. Really, it's a better proposal that "Zombie-Hunter" or "Clown Killer"... as I've seen throughout these forums. '''

Secondly, this is a neutral killing with heavily restricted killing ability. It's an indirect buff to the town, and what the town does not need are buffs, so it's off the table unless it's NE. End of story.

'''Neutral killing, you say this as if that is bad. Maybe we do not need another neutral killing. I don't see why not -- it's not like the end of the world to add another role. The presence of a new role does not weaken either town nor mafia unless the role explicitly states or does so... Will further explain below. This heavily restricted killing ability -- I don't see the problem with that. Better than a Retributionist who sits inactively in terms of their ability? I believed that this was quite a suspenseful role when I thought it up.'''

Thirdly, why these four roles? Any particular reason? Why not more? 4 roles out of 33 - that's a lot of roles that are not those 4 roles. It also hard-counters those 4 roles, and hard-countering roles are usually rejected outright.

'''For these four roles... yes, they could have been better selected. I'd like improvement suggestions instead of outright saying "no," simply phrased differently... I had a hard time coming up with a storyline or character description, and choosing four roles that would correspond to the Ex-Con's title, ex-con. If you can suggest any changes, I'll listen.'''

Finally, we have no 'ambassadors from BMG' here. This is a fan website, and although Uli holds a lot of status here, he and you and I are just the same rank in the official forums. This is on the fandom, after all. So that means that arguing here about the rules instated by the official BMG staff won't get you anywhere because we can't change them, just enforce them. If you have a serious problem with them, take it to BMG, but I can't imagine they'll listen to you.

'''To me it seems like you act like BMG ambassadors, and excuse me so believing so. This is a fandom as you stated, not a battlegrounds for possible roles which could even be considered proposed to BMG themselves. After all, these are just forums, role idea board, a place for creativity and I would expect more... casuality, if you will. I'm not dissenting that we can't be civilized or professional, as I very aim to do so, but the vibe I'm getting here is like I'm pitching an idea to some of the people from Shark Tank.'''

Currently, my opinions are:

I don't like your attitude. I'm sure you're a nice guy, so lighten up a bit. Vertroyer may have sounded condescending and unreasonable, but he's nothing like the people you'll encounter on the actual BMG forums. Trust me - I have personal experience in that department.

"I've already stated my apologies for any hostile attitude that may be coming off, anything typed sounds more rude that it should come off to be, and I take that into consideration when both typing and reading. It is very difficult to speak in a sugar-coated tone when you're the only one defending yourself. Quite difficult to respond to multiple staff members, solely. This holds true for any argument, ever, in existence."

I don't like this role. It's got too many problems currently, and it doesn't seem like it has any purpose other than "Originality! Yay!", although I must highlight that it is an original idea, so props to you on that one. Of course, original doesn't mean good, and that's why I declare that this role has been SCORCHED.

'''Perhaps, I could have just posted this role, and I do plan on posting more roles ideas, as originality and creativity are my specialty. However, I do suffer in technicality and mechanics. So I do need help in that department when it comes to role creation, which is why I post them here. I know doing this comes, inevitably, with someone whose criticism will be neither constructive nor complimentary, but just plain blunt.'''

Edit: And no, I'm not going to offer you a way to fix it, because I feel that this role has no way of being 'fixed' whilst retaining the same core concepts. I say you scrap it and move on, but use it as a learning experience.

'''No problem for offering ways to fix it. However, just because you think it can't be improved doesn't mean it can't be improved. An ideal comment, in my head, would be as follows : "Good job on creativity and originality. There are seemingly an abundance of things however that make this role unfit for Town of Salem, in my knowledge. I say you scrap it and move on, but use this as a learning experience." '''

Edit 2: Just clarifying for you what the difference between soft-countering and hard-countering are, because you seem to be a bit confused - Soft-countering is when a role counters something without being designed to counter it; like for example, the Janitor soft-counters every TI role because it prevents them from spreading info in their will.

'''My apologies, I think this is the first time I've seen the term 'soft-countering.' The hard-countering can be scrapped, I can change the ability wholeheartedly, but I still want to retain the idea of Ex-Con, or at least the name and role alignment. It is always possible to change, no matter how large the change is. Again, another example of improving, not rejecting.'''

However, hard-countering is a role that is designed to counter another role, EG FireFighter roles that counter Arso. There is only one hard-counter role in ToS that I can think of off the top of my head, and that's the Vampire Hunter, but that was created because the Vampires were (read: are) actually OP.

Edit 3: I must award you on your layout. The presentation is immaculate, and I can detect almost no spelling and/or grammar mistakes apart from one 'now' at the end of the second line that doesn't need to be there. It's not often that a role idea has such good layout, so congratulations on it. '''Thanks. I try. My thoughts just flow out of my head, and I filter them as I go. Mistakes are expected. :P'''