Board Thread:News and Announcements/@comment-25646419-20181212134658/@comment-28112409-20181218013500

TheRoyalOwl wrote: I'm not saying that all any should be balanced, I'm saying that roles in need to be to adapt to random scenarios. Like you can't customize a role for a set role list and than add it to a random one.

Yes I know it's hard, but why do think it takes so long for BMG to buff/nerf roles? Cause it's hard. And although the roles can't be perfect, it's still worth considering the other modes. And like you said yourself ret is only really good for rebuild role lists, so nerfing it to help ranked only hurts others more.

Also the Arsonist think was just an example. And if your gonna enter the conversation, opinions would be nice. And all any isn't that RNG based, yes the roles are random, but does that matter much if your good at the role given? That wasn't my point either. What I'm saying is that because All Any is so unbalanced, whether a role is customized for a rolelist or not becomes irrelevant.

It isn't hard, because there's 4 casual game modes where every single role can be enjoyable/balanced in at least one of them and one competitive mode where every single role has to be balanced in it. Therefore, casual game modes should barely be considered in terms of balancing roles. I don't know why the other game modes are going to be hurt from nerfing Ret when they have such a variety of roles open for them to utilize in Custom and absolute chaos to play in All Any when Ranked is really the only game mode currently suffering from Retribrokenist. The "damage" to casual game modes from balancing a single role for Ranked is abysmal because once again, the entire competitive scene in ToS is in this one game mode and the entire casual scene of ToS is distributed among 4 modes each with different rolelist potential including one where the community is capable of creating whatever rolelist.

So when you reject the necessary nerf of a role for Ranked just because the casual game modes are going to "suffer" despite the enjoyment from these game modes not coming from these single specific roles, you're opposing the improvement of ToS competitive entirely for casual game modes and for what? Fun? Do you even have evidence of this effect being a thing? Case in point: Mayor got nerfed in regards to whispers to repel an obnoxious meta in Ranked and none of the commonly used casual game modes at the time had suffered at all. You could still get into a full queue of All Any, Custom or Classic. There is no proper source or evidence that nerfing, buffing and reworking other roles for Ranked's purpose would significantly harm the other casual game modes. People would still play them at the end of the day.

The Arsonist thing is an example put forward by yourself, and I'm saying it's a terrible one that makes no sense. Arsonist was one of the most hated roles in the entire game to play as​​​​​​​ because of how sluggish and slow the killing was, so it required compensation in terms of laying low. That buff was inevitable, whether you liked it or not. Yes, All Any's RNG does matter because your skill at Jailor becomes largely irrelevant when against 3 Mafia, 2 Vampires, a Werewolf, a Witch, a Survivor, a Serial Killer and 3 Amnesiacs with a TI and a TS on your side. Same can apply to every role as well, and the game mode completely erases the need for using claimspace, process of elimination, VFR and such since all the roles in the rolelist are Any. If anything, it limits your skill potential in the game and deception becomes meaningless because you can't trust anyone to be anything unless you're a faction with night chat. So yes, it does matter much regardless of how good you are at your role, especially seeing how the skill ceiling for a specific role is pretty low and quite 2-dimensional in ToS.