Board Thread:Debate of The Week/@comment-36558623-20191205010244/@comment-36558623-20191217060613

ughhh. your points are repeating and retarded, oh yes it's basically rps and rps is just random, or some other bs, if I can get exeptional results consistantly on a role than you can't call it luck, i used to be able to get 10+ wins now i get 3 or 4 at best, to point out i had a hayday where i was consitantly good at it is to say no it's not random because i can get good at it, like you said you can't master luck but if you master something then according to that logic the simple fact i have at some point mastered it throws your entire last point into the trash bin, '''i never said you mastered how you used it. just that if you are getting a lot of good wins, they're more likely from good fortune then a strategy.''' also we arn't arguing if this is rps you ignoramous were arguing if this is skillful. have you ever played smash bros? if you have then you know that when character A meets character B then character A will try to ue a strateg againt their oponent based on how these 2 characters normally interact, and based off of these strategies they make PREDICTIONS, the pirate is the same you imply that the pirate is only 1 duel no, when multiple pirates pirate multiple people people tend to piick what they have noticed most OTHER pirates have been picking and the pirates do the oposite, in a vacume it may be random but guess what we don't live in a vacume where every role is random we live in a world where people LEARN and GROW, if Person A(pirate) pirates person's b - d and picks pistol but they all don't soon the pirate will learn to not pick that and pick something else, and then after that soon that the pirate-ee's realise that pirates arn't picking pistol or something else as much and start doing that more, and so on and so forth. is this random? no this is sentient people learning from what was once random to gain a STATISTICAL advantage. '''you honestly expect all of this evoloution to happen in one game? people don't give a shit about pirate, or any role for that matter. people don't scheme in the day time about what they're gonna do against the pirate if they meet again. if you plunder the same guy three times in a row and you pick pistol every time, he will notice. if you plunder 6 different people and you use pistol every time, there is a possibility, someone will notice "huh, i just survived pirate same way twice" that is the extreme example and very slim possibility wise.'''

also you still haven't played pirate or against it at all and you are assuming a bunch of stupid horseshit, '''yeah, ok. this arguement.''' '''may we please agree on one thing? if you don't think my opinion is valid because i've never played the role, we won't ever reach a conclusion, because regardless of the points I raise, you can always just use this as your trump card.''' if you don't think my opinion is valid, we'll just have to agree to disagree, k?

hey wanna know why i metion strategy a lot, it's because if you are planning and plotting you are decidedly not random, you have yet to prove to me that the pirate is actually random all your saying is it's like rps, and even if it is SO WHAT? rps is also not luck based,

'''have you listened to anything i've said? ik it's long but have you read it? literally half of what i've been rambling about disproves rps is about skill'''

heres an example:

you and your friend john decide to play rps best of 5, so then at first you play rock and he also plays rock.

'''why do you both choose rock. isn't there a strategy behind this'''

you decide that he is likely to think that you would use the same thing and he goes for paper, you go for scissors and win,

'''why do you decide to do this. how would you know he's going to do the same thing, why would he do the same thing. there's no reason.'''

next you play rock and he picks paper he wins,

'''why did he do that. what's the strategy behind this play. on that front- why did you choose rock? you had a reason for your last choice. and why did he choose paper? his heart seemed pretty set on rock.'''

next you both play scissors you think he'll be thinking you won't go for the same thing as last time because that would be stupid and thusly he goes for scissors and you go for rock, you win

'''ah finally, reasoning behind both choices. i do have a question though, john has suddenly gone much the wiser in these past 15 seconds, as he now has decided that doing the same move twice is dumb, however, he did that exact. same. thing. literally 15 seconds ago.'''

'''so let me get this straight. you win round 2 because you think he's gonna do the same thing. you win round 4 because you think he thinks you'll do the same thing.'''

does this not seem like fucking confirmation bias?

NOT ONLY is this rps exchange bloated with time, as there is not a single chance people could have this sprinting through there mind while they have 3 seconds to make each choice, BUT ALSO, each explanation makes as much sense as black fucking holes.

'''each conclusion you make to "win the game off strategy" is predicting the other persons move, correct? that's how you win? but every time you do this, your jump to conclusions just seems unrealistic. i've already said why it didn't make sense for john to suddenly despise the idea of doing a double move and it makes LESS sense that YOU know that he has made this revelation. the fact that he changed his strategy should've been completely baffling to you. IF ANYTHING, you should've gotten a draw. you should've done the same thing you did the first time, but he wasn't fooled twice. if he's really smart enough to have all this going through his mind in the 9 seconds between round 2 and 4, he should be able to figure this basic knoledge out. the fact that he found this epiphany AND THEN YOU ALSO realized he realized the same god damn thing is impossible.'''

next you play rock and john plays paper john wins,

'''after that lieutendant-like preperation i expected a little more then this. i'm thoroughly dissapointed. you didn't predict that he saw the reflection off his utensil this morning to see into the tv which was playing a rerun of a date on which a child was born, and using that childs birthday you applied the animal of that child's zodiac sign, a scale, in which you know that a pair of scissors would weight more then a blank sheet of paper?'''

this is the final round you ​​​​​must win it for the honour of being good at rps? anyways you play paper and he plays paper, you expect john to now think one step ahead of last time and that you will use the thing that would beat the original if he played it and so you play rock, john thought very similairly and also picks rock this cylce continues another time where you both pick rock again and then you think that he will be wanting to get the jump on you since you are likely going to choose something else, likely scissors but, he foresaw this and thought that you would think this and chose rock he wins

'''john is a very quick thinker. but i'm confused, because you should be too, considering that you two jump to the exact same conclusions every time. i wouldn't have assumed the same thing as john would've, it's just insane he would assume the same thing as me!'''

like i said in my previous responses, you could justify any reaction based on "logic"

'''females are more likely to use paper, so i think scissors would be the best choice to counter her based on her gender. although, if she also know this, that means that i should do paper, to counter her counter to my counter. although if she knows that i know that she knows, then i should go with scissors to counter her paper...'''

'''^like- you see??? I justified every outcome! And you could KEEP justifying every outcome with more and more and more "logic" because you could justify ANY of the three options with this "logic" it stops becoming about "what will they do" and more about "which one do i feel like doing".'''

look at that long drawn out segement of writing to eplain precisely about 30 seconds in real world time.

'''​​​​​​​YEAH EXACTLY! IT'S 30 SECONDS! NO ONE MONOLOGUES THIS MUCH IN THEIR HEAD IN 30 SECONDS!!!!!'''

you can master rps, and you can master pirate, and if you can master it there must be some underlying thing about them that makes them strategic, and it's this, one random move can begin the chain but from then on it will all be based on previous fails and wins leading to moves that are less random and more thought out and contemplated, but pirte is more strategic than rps, because the strategies aren't just after the random move you made before no, they're based off of what everyone else you pirated chose what you think this person is like and what a person like them would choose, what you yourself cose when you were pirated before and such, human learn from their mistakes and it's just foolish to believe that if a strategy COULD exist in something that humans would not do that to get the upper hand, but then it would be equally foolish to assume that others would not learn and choose what would beat theire choices

also one final note, you do realise that most fighting games have a rps mechanical core right? it tends to be something like this, attack beats grab, grab beats block, and block beats attack, yes most fighting games have more than just these basic mechanics but they all revolve around it.