Board Thread:Role Ideas (Rework)/@comment-39067078-20200116214236/@comment-27575896-20200117160500

Duwiiton wrote: The Vampire Hunter is a really cool concept i would love to see more.

Here's my idea -

==Basic==

pls read the lore

NAME

Vampire Hunter

Summary

A wary townie looking to eliminate unholy terror.

Lore 

The old Vampire Hunter stepped into the old house under the moonlight. The cobwebs splintered the rays like a mosaic in a church.

The Vampire Hunter stepped through the threshold of the house's doorway. Other than the smell of apparent garlic he was carrying, the Vampire Hunter only smelled blood. Blood and bodies.

The moaning coming from the basement was definitely not from the Escort's antics. It was much older, croaky, and harrowing in pain. The Vampire Hunter stepped forward, stake poised at the door. If anything came through, it would have the eyes pierced in less then a second.

The steps to the basement creaked. The tension was unbearable, but as his job, he must have an ambush to work without losing his own life.

The steps creaked once more. A bat sqeaked, and he could swear the time was right. It felt like he'd been waiting for hours, even though it had just been minutes.

The steps creaked one last time. They must be at the last step. The Vampire Hunter was ready to stab the first thing that came through the door when all of a sudden, the creak appeared behind him.

A bite pierced his neck and he grappled with the assailant behind him. Hopefully it was not the Consort biting him, as he was very ready to pierce the torso of anyone in his way. He turned at the dark veiled figure behind him, who was in fact the converted consort, and plunged his stake directly into her heart.

The infernal rage he had for vampires subsided into his subconscious and the room seemed to cool down. The Vampire Hunter took a minute to breathe in what had just happened as the blood dripped onto his palms, either from the Vampire or his own neck.

With a shaky breath, he knew the only way was to go out the way he took the Escort out.

So he did.

Win Condition - 

 Lynch all evildoers.

==Stats==

Alignment - 

Town Killing

Attack -

Basic

Defense -

None

Unique -

No

==Gameplay==

Attributes -

No longer role-dependent.

'''The problem with this is that you now have a Vampire Hunter when literally only Mafia exist. This is a nutjob for Ranked modes.'''

If you are converted by any role, you will kill yourself and your assailant. '''Any role? ANY role? So not just Vampires, but you perform a Crusader-power Bodyguard move on ANY attacker?''' '''Mafia attacks you? You kill em. Coven? Kill em. Juggernaut before N4? Kill em. PIRATE? Kill em.'''

The first time a vampire visits you, you will kill them. You will not kill them any other times. On paper, this is a good idea, but throughout every single game I have played with Vampires, there were either: No Vampire Hunters One Vampire Hunter, but they died early and either killed or help kill all Vampires or did nothing. More than one VH, but evils were ALWAYS persistent and killed them quickly.

You will be informed any time a vampire visits you.

Mechanics -

During the day, choose someone to Divine or Stake.

Divining-

"Holy Water, Garlic. A broth? No. These two ingredients aren't lethal to vampires, just debilitating. Tarnation, some people just don't like them."

When Divining someone's house, you will see their stats. Specifically:

How many times they visited someone who died. Almost always get's a "0" unless you get the direct attacker or Janitor/Forger.

How many times they visited someone who has been converted.

Not much point in this since you'll always get a 0 unless Vampires are very prevalent.

How many times they have whispered.

'''Useless overall. Doesn't indicate anything major. It could, but its very situational.'''

'''Turning VH into this weird TI role isn't what Town Killing is for. Vigilante shoots people and has huge reprocussions on shooting an innocent. Veteran can easily kill evils, but relies on visits entirely. Jailor is the exception but has its own weaknesses.'''

'''Vampire Hunter? Hunts Vampires, and that's it. Will die to anything, dies to protective roles, not easy to confirm.'''

'''Vampires? Die to anything, dies to protective roles, has the ability of going under-the-radar, turning a confirmed Townie into a secret killer.'''

'''That's about all it is, and Vampire Hunter is there to check whether someone known to be good is no longer good. Both roles can be easily killed if they push the limit.'''

Staking -

"Pure timber, but slightly pointier. Why is this lethal to Vampires? It's not. It's lethal to everyone,"

Definitely could be changed.

When staking someone, you will kill everyone visiting them if an evil visits them, including them.

'''No...you did not just pull a visiting Veteran, did you? I think you just did.'''

'''Even if you kill a Townie after an evil visits, you still killed the evil. Town now has less to deal with overall and an added claimspace spot removed. In Ranked, dear lord will this be overpowered.'''

What counts as evil visiting:

Neutral Evils, Neutral Killings, and Mafia/Coven visting them.

If the person you're staking is NE, NK, or M/C anyway.

The person if they are framed in any way.

Any townie who has visited someone who has died.

This is like trying to hit a wolf in a group of sheep with a machine gun. You will likely kill more townies unless you somehow mention to not visit someone you're checking. '''No, you'll only kill Townies if an evil visits, where-in you will also kill the evil role(s). You won't kill anyone unless an evil visits, period. If you visit an evil role, boom, you kill them as well.'''

You will not rampage if you are framed. This improves Framer.

'''See this is the issue with that. Evils should not have to worry about killing VH since it's harmless to them, and only attacks Vampires. This doesn't improve Framer, considering that Framing others to seem suspicious is their goal, and the VH, if it literally can't rampage if framed, will just kill it's initial target if its evil. Without killing fellow Town.'''

Notifications -

"You chose to Divine [x]."

"You chose to Stake [x]."

"You divined [x]. You found that they

Visited [y] people who have died the same night

Visited [w] people who have been converted the same night

Whispered [v] times."

"You Staked [x] because you detected evil!" "You Staked someone!"

"A vampire bit you, but you narrowly managed to heal it!"

"A vampire bit you. You could not heal it. You died!"

'''The "You have died!" message has to come after the first message, so this would shorten to "A vampire bit you." "You have died!".'''

==Investigative Results==

Sheriff -

Innocent

Investigator -

Precise - 
 * Survivor, Vampire Hunter, Amnesiac, Medusa or Psychic

Your target is rightfully suspicious. They must be the Vampire Hunter!

'''Rightfully suspicious? This dude murders anyone who comes in his way, and definitely doesn't hunt Vampires directly.'''

I understand you want to improve the Vampire Hunter to actually function more like a Town Killing. But this combines the Veteran with the Vigilante AND the ability to determine when an evil role visits.

Why have a Veteran when the Vampire Hunter can just walk over to someone's house and kill every single evil visiting them? Oh, a Townie died in that? Well, if 3 evils die that's a huge gain.

You can make the argument of "yeah well townies will visit too" but why would VH bother staking the house of a confirmed Townie, and not the house of the extremely silent dude, or the known evil? If you visit a Townie, nothing happens UNLESS an evil visits, where-in you'll kill everyone there. If you visit an evil, you kill the evil, any evils who visit, and any Townies who didn't read the fact the VH said they were visiting.

Why have a Vigilante if you can just have this dude who's only reprocussion is killing visiting Townies? If he stakes an evil, the evil dies. Sure, once again, "townies can visit" but no Townie will visit a suspicious person except for some TI, and if a VH is KNOWN, they won't go near them at all.

What makes VH balanced by itself is that it can ONLY harm Vampires. It is completely vulnerable to any attack, a Bodyguard or Trapper, and poor confirmability. Vampires are completely vulnerable to the same thing, but they can convert and spread UNDETECTED, so CONFIRMED Townies are now Vampires and get falsely protected. CONFIRMED Townies who are converted cause other Townies to get hanged. CONFIRMED Townies that nobody suspect of being evil, are now suddenly evil, and quickly can cause huge problems within.

And don't get me started on Ranked. This role in there, as its no longer dependent, is very ironical, very overpowered, and turns the Vigilante into a laughing stock and the Veteran into a sacky lump.

The fact you will kill the attacker visiting you is broken in-of itself. Sure, you die, but once again, an evil dies with you.

Vampire Hunter is one role that should just be left untouched overall. All Town Killing can perform very well or very poor, and not kill an evil at all.

This role literally cannot fail to attack an evil role, and will always kill an evil unless it gets executed, lynched, or the evil is healed.

A good rework should focus on making the role more balanced or function better in all game modes. Retributionist for example is one that should be fixed, but not entirely reworked.

Vampire Hunter is dependent ON Vampires and therefore should only be able to kill them directly. Because of this, its drawbacks are extremely prevalent and can ruin its go through at any time. What your idea created was a Town Killing that functions generally better than Vigilante and Veteran combined, and its only drawbacks are visiting Townies and if they visit a Townie who is visited by an evil, which smart VH's won't do. It will almost always go down killing an evil role, and if it kills Town, and not too much, that claimspace is taken away and those who claim outside of it are quickly lynched.

The divine mechanic doesn't serve much use since whispers don't really matter (Evils will generally tend to whisper LESS than Townies), and killings and conversions usually would return poor results.

Overall, this would not work well whatsoever.