Board Thread:Role Ideas (Rework)/@comment-28092296-20190802145021/@comment-37322933-20190811170616

TheRetroPioneer wrote:

I don't normally go into Coven stuff but you're cool and  stuff There are changes to all Coven roles, plus the Necronomicon. (Side Note: I originally posted something about Coven changes (I think a year ago or so?) and I've come back with some more reworks similar to those ones. If these suggestions sound familiar, it isn't me copying anyone else's ideas, just me revising mine)

New Necronomicon Priority: (First to last)

Poisoner - Helps in situations with a Doctor(s) and doesn’t increase the Coven’s kill ratio

Medusa - Medusa is prone to doing nothing due to the ‘limited abilities’ mechanic.

Necromancer - Often times has games or long periods of time within games where dead bodies cannot be necromanced or are only useful for trap sweeping, increasing the chance of triggering a Crusader/Ambusher or are counter productive, such as the infesting or biting ability. Unlike the majority of Coven roles, the Necromancer does not have an ability ready to use every night, and giving the Necromancer the ability to kill would give players more to do.

Potion Master - Very useful abilities that can be cranked out quite often. Does not need the Necronomicon, but still benefits from it somewhat.

Coven Leader - Still has a useful ability that is reliable, and sometimes the control ability functions better without attacking any target. A buffed-up Coven Leader creates an interesting threat, and with a lower Necronomicon priority, this would mean that the Coven makes up for lack of numbers with individual strength.

Hex Master - Hex Master is good in the long-term, mostly, since it relies on long games and time to kill. Attacking somebody would probably hurt the Hex Master, as it exposes the Hex Master as being a role in the game when it previously had an advantage in being hard to detect and creates the fear that the Hex Master could have lots of living players hexed and is ready to activate the final hex, causing VFR-ing a lot more common. I like HM being lastttttttt based on what you did, I'd think you'd put Necro first then Medusa, Poisoner, PM, CL, HM whatever this is fine

Medusa

Addresses Issues: Medusa is too similar to the Janitor/an OP Janitor/Mafioso combo

Stone Gazing will only hide somebody’s will. (The town will be informed that their will was “taken by the Medusa” or something) * This leaves Janitor with a unique ability (As Medusa, a role with Powerful attack that hides roles and wills is somewhat of an updated Janitor/Mafioso combo, particularly with the Necronomicon), but still ensures that Medusas cannot be outed by people leaving who they visited in their last wills cool I mean I'm not entirely sure but Medusa does seem pretty OP to me, yea, this would probably be better But would Medusa get the will or no

Hex Master

Addresses Issues : Hex Master is too similar to the Arsonist role, the Necronomicon for the Hex Master is counter-intuitive

People will receive a message when they are hexed; similar to the old Arsonist: “You were hexed!”

With the Necronomicon, the Hex Master can choose whether they visit their target for a basic attack or whether they will visit their target without the basic attack. Having hexed targets die removed the point of hexing them anyway. It completely negates the ‘silent killer’ strategy of the Hex Master With the Necronomicon, hexes can’t be removed via purging This is very very good, I'm annoyed by this problem too.
 * This is good for creating paranoia/drama, and insures that people still have a way of knowing that a Hex Master is in the game as they may all die in one night. This also would avoid games where the Hex Master does nothing at all due to no one noticing that people are getting hexed and the Hex Master dying before becoming useful.
 * This also makes the Hex Master weaker than the Arsonist, since it’s already close-ish to being on par with the Arsonist but has the potential backing of teammates unlike a solo Arsonist

Potion Master Addresses Issues : Doesn’t address any major issues

On night one, the Potion Master will brew 6 potions. The player can choose which potions the Potion Master creates, with as many as 6 potions for killing/revealing and 3 potions for healing.


 * This would allow the Potion Master more flexibility instead of having players fall into the ‘cycle between healing, revealing and killing without much thought as to what the player is doing’ archetype—the player can choose if they want to lay low for a little while or be aggressive and attack other players instead of mindlessly serving as a Doctor/Mafioso/Consigliere combo.


 * This would also help solidify Potion Master claims as an investigative role (revealing potion) since the Potion Master no longer has to sit through a two-night cooldown which would serve as a big obstacle to a solid investigative claim.

With the Necronomicon, the Potion Master chooses to regenerate a potion once every other night (this serves as a day action; that night the potion will be ready). Kill potions don’t trigger a cooldown and the Potion Master can brew another potion the next day (to stick to the theme that the Necronomicon allows Coven to kill every night).

I feel this makes PM a little overcomplicated, but I like it balance-wise, and since that's what I really normally go for, I support this.
 * This means that a PM can either be a discount Mafioso or alternate between healing and revealing and lay low. Potions can be combined to create powerful combos, however, they are not too powerful since the cooldown times limit the freedom of this role.

Poisoner

Addresses Issues : Doesn’t address any major issues

Necronomicon changes; Doctors can still heal poisons, however nobody will receive a message stating that they were poisoned.


 * This makes Doctor’s only buff against the Crusader just a little bit larger

alright that's cool
 * This gives wiggle room for Medusa, Werewolves and Pestilence to bait Doctors into visiting them without getting questioned as to why they didn't die—a player can say that they 'think' they're going to be visited by the Poisoner and create a red herring based upon chat messages (if that player said that they were anti-coven it would rather have Maddie win over Coven, etc.) and death notes by the Coven.

Coven Leader

Addresses Issues : Controlling killing roles over and over again

The same target cannot be controlled the night after they were controlled (Ex: If player #3 was controlled night three, they cannot be controlled on night four).


 * Constantly controlling the same target isn’t fun for the person being controlled. This is especially problematic with some of the killing roles in the game; Coven Leaders ‘exploit’ the control mechanic to nullify the point of a killing role’s night ability (SK, WW, Arso, Gf)—and not fear that target dying due to the Coven Leader possesing an inferior attack level to those role’s defense values—and turns them into a de facto killer (or douser) for the Coven faction, which isn’t very fun for the NK (who has to leave the game early, sit there and do nothing or get themselves hanged) or the CL (who turns into a discount stupid Mafioso, but cannot stop controlling their target because they’re controlling an opposing killing role who is a decent threat).

A Werewolf will automatically override a control if they are staying at home to rampage at their own house Would you make this change to the Witch in Vanilla, too? But regardless this is very very very goood
 * If a Godfather gets controlled, a Mafioso will override the Godfather's orders

Necromancer

Addresses Issues : Potential gamethrowing problem

Pestilence corpses cannot kill the Necromancer because that’s stupid and makes people yell at inexperienced players that 'lost' the game for the Coven. Instead, Pestilence corpses cannot be used at all.

yeah ok that works

With the Necronomicon, the Necromancer sees what results their corpse would be gotten. (Ex: Investigator corpse visits player, Necromancer reads that night's investigation result)

​​​​​​​Cool, but does it still have its previous effect? Anyway now I'm going back to the Nec order
 * This makes a lot of previously useless corpses useful as well as creates a solid Medium claim

I think it should beeeee

Necro>Poisoner>PM>Medusa>CL>HM

if that's the same, cool, i don't wanna check

Overall

This is very good to the 34th power

Although maybe there's stuff I'm missing since I'm not too good at Coven mechanics and all